|
|
Post by see2 on Feb 16, 2023 14:47:02 GMT
They are based upon a 1948 declaration, the UN clarified that declaration in 1951. Asylum dates back to ancient Egypt; "This right was recognized by the Ancient Egyptians, the Greeks, and the Hebrews, from whom it was adopted into Western tradition. René Descartes fled to the Netherlands, Voltaire to England, and Thomas Hobbes to France, because each state offered protection to persecuted foreigners." Not much help I know. Accordiing to the Bible Israelites became slaves to the Egyptians. However, there is no record of this in Egyptian history and neither did the Egyptians record the flight of Israelites. What it does record is the Hyksos being driven from Egypt and it's quite possible that if th Israelites joined them the story arose from that; it's also likely, even possible, that Moses was a Hyksos. There is another theory (or two  ). One is that Jericho was concurred by the Egyptians and many slaves were taken to work in Egypt. Some time later when the Egyptians began losing battles they withdrew from Canaan and released the Canaanite slaves working in Egypt. By the time they were released they had picked up on Akhenaten's One single God in the sky belief, which they took back to Canaan with them along with the term Israelites. When the Israelites reached Canaan there was no battle, just great rejoicing at the return of Canaanites from Egypt. No idea of the timespan of events. |
|
|
|
Post by Toreador on Feb 16, 2023 15:11:09 GMT
Accordiing to the Bible Israelites became slaves to the Egyptians. However, there is no record of this in Egyptian history and neither did the Egyptians record the flight of Israelites. What it does record is the Hyksos being driven from Egypt and it's quite possible that if th Israelites joined them the story arose from that; it's also likely, even possible, that Moses was a Hyksos. There is another theory (or two ). One is that Jericho was concurred by the Egyptians and many slaves were taken to work in Egypt. Some time later when the Egyptians began losing battles they withdrew from Canaan and released the Canaanite slaves working in Egypt. By the time they were released they had picked up on Akhenaten's One single God in the sky belief, which they took back to Canaan with them along with the term Israelites. When the Israelites reached Canaan there was no battle, just great rejoicing at the return of Canaanites from Egypt. No idea of the timespan of events. lol, that's a biblical story so discounted. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Feb 16, 2023 15:27:34 GMT
There is another theory (or two ). One is that Jericho was concurred by the Egyptians and many slaves were taken to work in Egypt. Some time later when the Egyptians began losing battles they withdrew from Canaan and released the Canaanite slaves working in Egypt. By the time they were released they had picked up on Akhenaten's One single God in the sky belief, which they took back to Canaan with them along with the term Israelites. When the Israelites reached Canaan there was no battle, just great rejoicing at the return of Canaanites from Egypt. No idea of the timespan of events. lol, that's a biblical story so discounted. Sure you will find some eager to discount it. But what of the Israelite verse that mimics Akhenaten's own words? Where did the Israelis get their monotheism of the god in the sky come from? The fact that the Egyptians did conquer Canaan is not in doubt, nor is the fact that the Israelites made their way to freed by going to Canaan. And a big celebration make more sense than blowing your horns to bring down the walls. |
|
|
|
Post by Toreador on Feb 16, 2023 15:37:19 GMT
lol, that's a biblical story so discounted. Sure you will find some eager to discount it. But what of the Israelite verse that mimics Akhenaten's own words? Where did the Israelis get their monotheism of the god in the sky come from? The fact that the Egyptians did concur Canaan is not in doubt, nor is the fact that the Israelites made their way to freed by going to Canaan. And a big celebration make more sense than blowing your horns to bring down the walls. The Egyptians were fastidious records keepers. Show me where they recorded this. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2023 21:01:42 GMT
So I am not far left, I am hard left and still an extremist? And you claim to be unbiased? Lol/ You have never ever said a bad word about New Labour either, nor ever acknowledged that anyone who did might occasionally have had a point. Even I can acknowledge mistakes made by the left, something you signally seem incapable of with New Labour. That makes you even more biased than me and too steeped in that bias to even recognise it as such. Your pretense at impartiality is actually laughable. YES, hard left and extremist as Thatcher was hard right and extremist. As I have previously explained. That you do not see yourself as hard left is because you see your as normal when you are only 'normal' as seen by yourself from your biased position. I don't doubt Thatcher thought she was normal too, as to did Genghis Khan. The overwhelming dishonest propaganda against NL (made for obvious reasons) has two affects on myself, one is in noting there is no reason for me to give any credibility to any of it, and the second is, that because of all the dishonest propaganda I am inclined to point out that dishonesty. If you were not one of those guilty of joining in on dishonestly attacking Blair there would be no need for me to explain this point. That you see me as hard left and extremist whilst unable to see anything wrong with New Labour is itself evidence of your huge bias. Mislabelling others in pejorative ways is a standard manifestation of bias. Apparently Margaret Thatcher was an extremist to which is more evidence of your bias. She was many things and I loathed the woman but she was not any kind of extremist, which is just as well as New Labour continued many of her policies. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Feb 17, 2023 8:38:11 GMT
Sure you will find some eager to discount it. But what of the Israelite verse that mimics Akhenaten's own words? Where did the Israelis get their monotheism of the god in the sky come from? The fact that the Egyptians did concquer Canaan is not in doubt, nor is the fact that the Israelites made their way to freed by going to Canaan. And a big celebration make more sense than blowing your horns to bring down the walls. The Egyptians were fastidious records keepers. Show me where they recorded this. Eager to record their defeats? As I recall it that is one thing they never did. |
|
|
|
Post by Toreador on Feb 17, 2023 8:39:40 GMT
The Egyptians were fastidious records keepers. Show me where they recorded this. Eager to record their defeats? As I recall it that is one thing they never did. Then how do you know they were defeated? |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Feb 17, 2023 8:59:26 GMT
YES, hard left and extremist as Thatcher was hard right and extremist. As I have previously explained. That you do not see yourself as hard left is because you see your as normal when you are only 'normal' as seen by yourself from your biased position. I don't doubt Thatcher thought she was normal too, as to did Genghis Khan. The overwhelming dishonest propaganda against NL (made for obvious reasons) has two affects on myself, one is in noting there is no reason for me to give any credibility to any of it, and the second is, that because of all the dishonest propaganda I am inclined to point out that dishonesty. If you were not one of those guilty of joining in on dishonestly attacking Blair there would be no need for me to explain this point. That you see me as hard left and extremist whilst unable to see anything wrong with New Labour is itself evidence of your huge bias. Mislabelling others in pejorative ways is a standard manifestation of bias. Apparently Margaret Thatcher was an extremist to which is more evidence of your bias. She was many things and I loathed the woman but she was not any kind of extremist, which is just as well as New Labour continued many of her policies. I have highlighted you lie number one. I have never suggested that there was nothing wrong with New Labour. I have made the honest point that New Labour were much better than the two Tory governments that preceded them. Mrs. Thatcher labeled the moderates in her party as "THE WETS" What she would have referred to Corbyn as being, is probably unprintable. Yet you refuse to accept that she was an extremist. Just in your attempt to butter up your own extremist position. That only works for you. The only areas where I can see when NL followed Thatcher was in keeping the law that made Wild Cat strikes illegal, and I give her full marks for that. Then there were certain rules for unions to follow before taking strike action, and I don't hear the unions complaining about that. Other than that New Labour set about altering just about everything they could in terms of the damage that Thatcher did. So your post is a load of nonsense isolated in the hard left area of politics. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Feb 17, 2023 9:00:32 GMT
Eager to record their defeats? As I recall it that is one thing they never did. Then how do you know they were defeated? Historians have worked it out. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Feb 17, 2023 9:08:44 GMT
That you see me as hard left and extremist whilst unable to see anything wrong with New Labour is itself evidence of your huge bias. Mislabelling others in pejorative ways is a standard manifestation of bias. Apparently Margaret Thatcher was an extremist to which is more evidence of your bias. She was many things and I loathed the woman but she was not any kind of extremist, which is just as well as New Labour continued many of her policies. So your post is a load of nonsense isolated in the hard left area of politics. Ive known steve SRB online for many years , and while i disagree with him on many political subjects , and have had my fallings out with him , the idea he is some sort of "hard left" extremist is just yet more of the absolute pish your post on this forum.
You couldnt get a more balanced informed poster on politics , who graces any forum he posts on .
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Feb 17, 2023 9:09:22 GMT
Then how do you know they were defeated? Historians have worked it out. Thats a bit deep for in here on a friday morning. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Feb 17, 2023 10:55:47 GMT
So your post is a load of nonsense isolated in the hard left area of politics. Ive known steve SRB online for many years , and while i disagree with him on many political subjects , and have had my fallings out with him , the idea he is some sort of "hard left" extremist is just yet more of the absolute pish your post on this forum.
You couldnt get a more balanced informed poster on politics , who graces any forum he posts on . He backed Corbyn and argued for him after he left. What's your take on Corbyn? Do you agree with him when he posts lies about New Labour? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2023 11:25:53 GMT
I am a great believer in Tolerance, and the political landscape is lacking in tolerance, especially since the Brexit referendum and "culture wars".
I believe that Jeremy Corbyn is a sincere man, and he believes in his principles, but its a case of "sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree" where I am concerned.
One of the problems with Corbynism and the old Socialist Left, is that a lot of the followers are intolerant to the extreme, they are no better than the far right, and I have been on the receiving end of their abuse and insults.
I do not understand why people who want a progressive alternative to the Conservatives cannot see what type of alternative is MOST LIKELY to get elected. The evidence is there, the evidence is in the history books.
Michael Foot ... FAIL
Jeremy Corbyn ... FAIL
Tony Blair ... SUCCESS ( on a massive scale ) the biggest Labour majority ever in history
What is it that people do not understand ?
We need a different government, we need it badly, we dont want One and a Half Hours waiting time after dialing 999 for an ambulance when someone has a suspected heart attack. We desperately need a progressive government that will repair and look after our essential services, plan for economic growth, look after the nations finances and care and look after those that try hard but need a little help or support.
As for asylum seekers, no simple answers to this issue, we have got to speed up and sort out the genuine from the fakes, and send the fakes away, and put the genuine to work, earning a living, on a probationary track towards citizenship and contributing to the country.
|
|
|
|
Post by Toreador on Feb 17, 2023 12:21:46 GMT
Historians have worked it out. Thats a bit deep for in here on a friday morning. See2 may well be referring to historians who based most of their meanderings on, at best, hearsay, people like Josephus who, like most historians, lived and wrote well after the event when hearsay was more a case of Chinese whispers over decades and sometimes longer; they often use earlier historian's works to form the basis of their own works. |
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Feb 17, 2023 12:34:36 GMT
I am a great believer in Tolerance, and the political landscape is lacking in tolerance, especially since the Brexit referendum and "culture wars". I believe that Jeremy Corbyn is a sincere man, and he believes in his principles, . . . I did until he produced that fake economic analysis as part of his leadership campaign, lied his arse off to derail the remain campaign and then effectively conspired with Boris to get that 2019 election that guaranteed Brexit. Possibly the most dishonest leading UK politician of recent decades |
|
).
