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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2023 18:58:54 GMT
Pacifico ... "Higher taxes and more Public spending will not provide growth - ffs we currently have the highest taxes and public spending in decades and the lowest sustained growth on record.
taking money from the productive parts of the economy and handing to the unproductive never achieves anything worthwhile"
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Public spending right now is artificially high due to (A) the tail end of support during the pandemic, and also (B) government support in the cost of living crisis.
Public spending is falling from its peak of government support during the pandemic, but immediately prior to the pandemic in 2019, public spending as a percentage of GDP was the same as it was in 2004, nineteen years ago.
Things are never as straight forward as what you might think
The richest countries with the highest standards of living all have higher taxation than the UK, this includes Luxembourg, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Germany and Austria.
Higher taxation does not necessarily make people or society poorer, because people have better public services, better public transport, CHEAPER public transport, better pensions.
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Post by jonksy on Feb 5, 2023 19:26:00 GMT
Pacifico ... "Higher taxes and more Public spending will not provide growth - ffs we currently have the highest taxes and public spending in decades and the lowest sustained growth on record. taking money from the productive parts of the economy and handing to the unproductive never achieves anything worthwhile" ----------------------------- Public spending right now is artificially high due to (A) the tail end of support during the pandemic, and also (B) government support in the cost of living crisis. Public spending is falling from its peak of government support during the pandemic, but immediately prior to the pandemic in 2019, public spending as a percentage of GDP was the same as it was in 2004, nineteen years ago. Things are never as straight forward as what you might think The richest countries with the highest standards of living all have higher taxation than the UK, this includes Luxembourg, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Germany and Austria.Higher taxation does not necessarily make people or society poorer, because people have better public services, better public transport, CHEAPER public transport, better pensions. Because their workforce get off their fat arses and work for a living...Simple innit? |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 5, 2023 20:09:40 GMT
1, There are loads of tax perks to encourage investment, they don't work. I'm not against them, they just aren't working. It doesn't, but you can keep repeating it does with no knowledge about it. Long term investment does not save enough tax to be worth it and pays no better than short term. But in any case the main drivers for investment are quick returns and security. so investment in house building is safe and gets a quick guaranteed return. But investing in nanobot technology is long term and risky. So you guess where the money goes. I don't think any UK government has ever done what I'm suggesting, perhaps you can give me examples. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Feb 5, 2023 20:51:00 GMT
Pacifico ... "Higher taxes and more Public spending will not provide growth - ffs we currently have the highest taxes and public spending in decades and the lowest sustained growth on record. taking money from the productive parts of the economy and handing to the unproductive never achieves anything worthwhile" ----------------------------- Public spending right now is artificially high due to (A) the tail end of support during the pandemic, and also (B) government support in the cost of living crisis. Public spending is falling from its peak of government support during the pandemic, but immediately prior to the pandemic in 2019, public spending as a percentage of GDP was the same as it was in 2004, nineteen years ago. Things are never as straight forward as what you might think The richest countries with the highest standards of living all have higher taxation than the UK, this includes Luxembourg, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Germany and Austria.Higher taxation does not necessarily make people or society poorer, because people have better public services, better public transport, CHEAPER public transport, better pensions. Because their workforce get off their fat arses and work for a living...Simple innit? That looks like you are advocating higher taxes for a higher standard of living? |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 5, 2023 21:06:00 GMT
Because their workforce get off their fat arses and work for a living...Simple innit? Far from it......The UK's tax paid by those workers who are prepared to work is just pissed against the wall on mad cap schemes and and fucking diversity crap......Never mind those who have a real genuin need of help they are thrust to the back or left on the streets whilst illegal dross are treated like bloody royalty. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 5, 2023 21:14:38 GMT
Most of todays kids wouldn't cope with such a scheme. Probably. My own daughter had a definite plan on what to do, which i think was defeated more by the financial squeeze than anything else. She did get the qualification and uses a lot of the image manipulation and similar it gave her. And she does sell some stuff, just not enough to be her main job. I was quite surprised when I went to a sort of reunion some years after i left. The degree grade award notice was on the board and included a section ‘the following candidates have failed to satisfy the examiners’ with two names under it. I expressed surprise to my former mentors who said ‘sadly, we stopped applying the motivation we used with your year a while ago’. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Feb 5, 2023 21:17:40 GMT
That looks like you are advocating higher taxes for a higher standard of living? Far from it......The UK's tax paid by those workers who are prepared to work is just pissed against the wall on mad cap schemes and and fucking diversity crap......Never mind those who have a real genuin need of help they are thrust to the back or left on the streets whilst illegal dross are treated like bloody royalty. Well, I wouldn't say that the economy is failing because diversity! Lol. I'll just repeat the section that you highlighted again: "The richest countries with the highest standards of living all have higher taxation than the UK, this includes Luxembourg, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Germany and Austria." |
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Post by see2 on Feb 5, 2023 21:18:46 GMT
The economic rules state that borrowing for the purpose of day to day spending gets you nowhere except into economic trouble. This was the problem with Liz Truss, she wanted to borrow to fund tax cuts Tax cuts don't have to be funded, it's the spending that has to be funded. Governments regularly borrow money and spend it. And tax cuts can add to the cash salted away on low tax hideaways. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 5, 2023 21:21:08 GMT
Far from it......The UK's tax paid by those workers who are prepared to work is just pissed against the wall on mad cap schemes and and fucking diversity crap......Never mind those who have a real genuin need of help they are thrust to the back or left on the streets whilst illegal dross are treated like bloody royalty. Well, I wouldn't say that the economy is failing because diversity! Lol. I'll just repeat the section that you highlighted again: "The richest countries with the highest standards of living all have higher taxation than the UK, this includes Luxembourg, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Germany and Austria."Because they work for a living unlike the lazy arseholes in the UK who seem to think that the world and their dog owes them a living whilst they sit on their fat ases doing jack shit.. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Feb 5, 2023 21:30:39 GMT
Well, I wouldn't say that the economy is failing because diversity! Lol. I'll just repeat the section that you highlighted again: "The richest countries with the highest standards of living all have higher taxation than the UK, this includes Luxembourg, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Germany and Austria."Because they work for a living unlike the lazy arseholes in the UK who seem to think that the world and their dog owes them a living whilst they sit on their fat ases doing jack shit.. Sorry mate, I've lost your point here? These countries have higher standards of living than the UK and higher taxes than the UK. Productivity is low in the UK, I agree there, but what is the link to higher taxes? |
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Post by Orac on Feb 5, 2023 21:33:28 GMT
It doesn't, but you can keep repeating it does with no knowledge about it. This faux browbeating from a position of total weakness is quite funny Long term investment does not save enough tax to be worth it and pays no better than short term. But in any case the main drivers for investment are quick returns and security. so investment in house building is safe and gets a quick guaranteed return. But investing in nanobot technology is long term and risky. So you guess where the money goes. One of the problems with the notion of a government "investing" is that for a government all of the proper signals and incentives that guide an investor to what is wanted and needed, don't exist. So, while it is true that a government can force money out of its subjects to invest where other investors fear to tread, this fact also means that, because the buffoons in control aren't actually paying, there is absolutely no upper boundary on just how corrupt, wasteful, irrational and damaging those 'investment' decisions can be. It's like a two edged sword, with the bad edge being very much dominant and likely to become more dominant over time. It has to be born in mind that, even if the government does (through some minor miracle) manage to do something in itself productive, this productive thing it did will always, even in the best case scenario, be at the expense of something else not happening because the resources and incentive needed to do it were removed from people by the government. This is another double edge. Is it at all likely that the government's version of what is wanted is going to be better than the things they defeated (destroyed) by removing the resources needed to do them? No it isn't and an understanding of basic economics will tell you why - the incentives are mis-aligned (as referenced above). In modern politics the issue is almost all about control. People want the government to do this because the stolen and redirected potential allow the systematic removal of basic liberty (people want their neighbours crushed and bent into compliance) I don't think any UK government has ever done what I'm suggesting, perhaps you can give me examples. The soviet union is a good example of your model going quite badly. The government was given the power to decide what would be funded and the government quickly (and predictably) became entirely incompetent and corrupt. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 5, 2023 21:40:09 GMT
Because they work for a living unlike the lazy arseholes in the UK who seem to think that the world and their dog owes them a living whilst they sit on their fat ases doing jack shit.. Sorry mate, I've lost your point here? These countries have higher standards of living than the UK and higher taxes than the UK. Productivity is low in the UK, I agree there, but what is the link to higher taxes? They don't piss tax payers money against the wall to the lesser extent that the UK does...Take Sweden for instance yep they are woke but the swedes still enjoy free child care for those mothers who want to work and they have a health system that works... |
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Post by Orac on Feb 5, 2023 21:49:05 GMT
Sweden is still riding on the cohesive society it had until about twenty years ago. However, the cracks are really appearing now.
If you have an honest and conflict free society, you can easily make an effective government within that society. In fact, if you have a decent and honest society, you could probably get away with not bothering with a government and just let people make donations and help their neighbours. The left gets this upside down and imagines society flowing out of governments
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Post by andrewbrown on Feb 5, 2023 21:59:13 GMT
Sorry mate, I've lost your point here? These countries have higher standards of living than the UK and higher taxes than the UK. Productivity is low in the UK, I agree there, but what is the link to higher taxes? They don't piss tax payers money against the wall to the lesser extent that the UK does...Take Sweden for instance yep they are woke but the swedes still enjoy free child care for those mothers who want to work and they have a health system that works... Child care in this country is a disgrace and a barrier to working for many. I think that we can both agree there. But then the point is how would we be able to replicate it without having higher taxes to pay for it? |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 5, 2023 22:02:58 GMT
They don't piss tax payers money against the wall to the lesser extent that the UK does...Take Sweden for instance yep they are woke but the swedes still enjoy free child care for those mothers who want to work and they have a health system that works... Child care in this country is a disgrace and a barrier to working for many. I think that we can both agree there. But then the point is how would we be able to replicate it without having higher taxes to pay for it?Spend the money on what it was intended for... |
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