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Post by patman post on Feb 11, 2023 14:36:34 GMT
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Post by steppenwolf on Feb 11, 2023 15:31:53 GMT
Big dog's bollocks. Hillsborough was entirely the fault of drunken football fans turning up late and pushing their way in - crushing the people at the front. The police were in no way to blame - which is why none of the police have been found guilty. And no one will be found guilty of any crime regarding Grenfell. No building regulations were broken and the fire brigade did their job as best they could. The only people who were breaking the law were some of the tenants. And rags like the Spectator can witter on about "flammable cladding" but all cladding is flammable - all that varies is the temperature at which it catches fire. The cladding on Grenfell conformed to the regulations at the time.
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Post by nonnie2 on Feb 14, 2023 4:17:56 GMT
Big dog's bollocks. Hillsborough was entirely the fault of drunken football fans turning up late and pushing their way in - crushing the people at the front. The police were in no way to blame - which is why none of the police have been found guilty. And no one will be found guilty of any crime regarding Grenfell. No building regulations were broken and the fire brigade did their job as best they could. The only people who were breaking the law were some of the tenants. And rags like the Spectator can witter on about "flammable cladding" but all cladding is flammable - all that varies is the temperature at which it catches fire. The cladding on Grenfell conformed to the regulations at the time. Any house with Kingspan type material within the cavity is a potential Grenfell. When Grenfell happened, building control wanted the tops of cavities closed off with loft insulation, to stop a draft going up the cavity because if somehow it caught fire, the flames would fan up the cavity. |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 14, 2023 9:07:55 GMT
The cladding was meant to be "compartmentalised" too, but it had been wrongly fitted. The cladding met safety regulations and, if fitted properly, was safe. In fact there was an example of a posh tower block in Dubai (The Address) which had exactly the same cladding as Grenfell. It caught fire and the whole tower looked like a giant Roman Candle apparently with molten blobs of cladding flying off it, but no one was hurt and the apartments were OK. They were fitted properly. I don't think anyone has "wished death on the tenants of Grenfell" - just pointed out that the behaviour of the tenants played a big part in causing the fire. The topic of Grenfell was extensively discussed on PoFo, the previous site where many of us lived. In my opinion the aluminium composite external layer was less likely to be the main cause of the disaster than the mainly polyisocyanurate foam attached to the concrete structure and whether the cavity fire barriers were adequate and appropriately fixed; here's a section of the official report: 6.22 Siderise RH “Open State” Horizontal Cavity Barriers were installed in the facade system inboth the horizontal and vertical positions.33 These cavity barriers incorporate an intumescentstrip which is designed to expand in the event of a fire and seal the gap between the barrierand the rear of the cladding.34 In the horizontal position they were installed approximately700mm below the level of the windowsills and extended over the columns at that level.35On both the columns and the spandrels they were mechanically fixed using metal supportbrackets which pierced the full depth of the barrier at 400mm centres.36 Cavity barriers werenot provided for all the columns, however,37 and no cavity barriers were present at the noseof the columns,38 or at the head of the rainscreen cladding (i.e. the top of the building).396.23 Inspections of the cavity barriers have shown that:a. they were not continuous, because the cladding rails supporting the ACM panels brokethrough them at least every 1100mm;40 andb. in many cases they were poorly fitted, with gaps between them instead of being tightlyabutted.41External insulation should not have relied on polyurethane or polyisocyanurate foam, both of which are not only inflammable but produce the extremely toxic fumes carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide and other toxic products on decomposition and combustion. I once read that jusat a few inhalations and you were a gonna. The product to use would have been, at best, rockwool and even the phenolic foam used on some parts of the Grenfell building where, presumably, there was a higher fire risk. Both perform very well in fire situations and the fire performance of phenolic foam is exceptional. It combines zero or very low flame spread with negligible smoke emission and a very low level of toxic gas emission and in the case of rockwool, apart from the granite fibres it uses tiny amounts of oil for waterproofing and urea modified phenol-formaldehyde binder. The faults in fixing the fire barriers left the cavity acting as a giant oxygen supplying chimney. |
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