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Post by Vinny on Feb 2, 2023 19:37:35 GMT
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Post by sword on Feb 2, 2023 22:25:32 GMT
Yes and the criminals responsible are still walking the streets.
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Post by steppenwolf on Feb 3, 2023 8:53:42 GMT
Yes and the criminals responsible are still walking the streets. 72 of them aren't. |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 3, 2023 9:56:44 GMT
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Post by steppenwolf on Feb 3, 2023 13:37:45 GMT
I'm saying that the primary cause of the fire was the tenants. The tenants were a bunch of freeloaders who mainly came to this country to sponge off the state. None of them could afford to live in one of the most expensive places in the world - yet they complained when they were put in an old tower block. If they didn't like it they had the choice of paying for their own accommodation. Beggars can't be choosers. To make matters worse these bastards were trying to make money by subletting their flats - or even having many families living in one flat. This was a violation of their agreement and directly led to the electrical problems that the flats had. Some of them also had flammable materials in their flats contrary to their tenancy agreement. They were WELL aware that this was leading to overloading of the electrical circuits but all they did was "complain to the council". How about getting off their backsides and sorting out the problems by not stacking adaptors on the sockets etc. And the bloke whose dodgy fridge caused the initial fire was mainly concerned with packing his belongings and buggering off rather than calling the fire brigade. I used to live in an old tower block in Holland. There were no problems there at all because the tenants took care of the place. They didn't go round pissing in the lifts and breaking their tenancy agreements and dealing in drugs or subletting to multiple families etc. These people brought it on themselves and now they're trying to make money out of it. And nobody in the govt or council has the balls to tell the truth because immigrants/muslims/freeloaders seem to be able to get away with anything in this country. No one has the balls to tell the truth. As for the cladding being flammable, bollocks. All cladding is flammable. Everything is flammable - it's just the temperature at which it burns that changes. The cladding conformed to building regulations and is in use all over the world, with few problems. I'm not interested in this bleeding heart crap. And fuck the grenfellactiongroup. |
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Post by patman post on Feb 3, 2023 14:34:46 GMT
I'm saying that the primary cause of the fire was the tenants. The tenants were a bunch of freeloaders who mainly came to this country to sponge off the state. None of them could afford to live in one of the most expensive places in the world - yet they complained when they were put in an old tower block. If they didn't like it they had the choice of paying for their own accommodation. Beggars can't be choosers. To make matters worse these bastards were trying to make money by subletting their flats - or even having many families living in one flat. This was a violation of their agreement and directly led to the electrical problems that the flats had. Some of them also had flammable materials in their flats contrary to their tenancy agreement. They were WELL aware that this was leading to overloading of the electrical circuits but all they did was "complain to the council". How about getting off their backsides and sorting out the problems by not stacking adaptors on the sockets etc. And the bloke whose dodgy fridge caused the initial fire was mainly concerned with packing his belongings and buggering off rather than calling the fire brigade. I used to live in an old tower block in Holland. There were no problems there at all because the tenants took care of the place. They didn't go round pissing in the lifts and breaking their tenancy agreements and dealing in drugs or subletting to multiple families etc. These people brought it on themselves and now they're trying to make money out of it. And nobody in the govt or council has the balls to tell the truth because immigrants/muslims/freeloaders seem to be able to get away with anything in this country. No one has the balls to tell the truth. As for the cladding being flammable, bollocks. All cladding is flammable. Everything is flammable - it's just the temperature at which it burns that changes. The cladding conformed to building regulations and is in use all over the world, with few problems. I'm not interested in this bleeding heart crap. And fuck the grenfellactiongroup. I'm surprised you didn't find any Hillsborough disaster escapees listed among the residents while you were sifting through the tenancy agreements and identifying proscribed flammable materials in the building... |
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Post by Handyman on Feb 3, 2023 16:11:30 GMT
IMHO a tragedy waiting to happen, bad design probably, plus Fire Doors damaged and or propped open, if I recall correctly no Sprinkler system, fire went from flat to flat is no time at all through the ducting , poor maintenance for years.
Wrong call by the Fire Brigade to stay put, wrong instruction from the top, no extendable ladder long enough to reach the fire going upwards, the Fire Brigade did their best but to no avail.
Now the Fire Fighters are paying for all the toxic air asbestos etc and probably not just from Grenfell from many fires.
I wish them well
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Post by steppenwolf on Feb 4, 2023 8:35:25 GMT
IMHO a tragedy waiting to happen, bad design probably, plus Fire Doors damaged and or propped open, if I recall correctly no Sprinkler system, fire went from flat to flat is no time at all through the ducting , poor maintenance for years. Wrong call by the Fire Brigade to stay put, wrong instruction from the top, no extendable ladder long enough to reach the fire going upwards, the Fire Brigade did their best but to no avail. Now the Fire Fighters are paying for all the toxic air asbestos etc and probably not just from Grenfell from many fires. I wish them well It was an old building, built when safety standards were less stringent. And although a lot of money had been spent on maintenance the people doing the work had done it wrong. In particular the fitting of the cladding had been done in a way that it allowed the spread of fire from flat to flat. The idea was that each flat was "compartmetalised" so that a fire couldn't spread from one flat to another. The cladding should have also been compartmentalised from the flats but the fitters got it wrong. The advice given by the fire brigade was correct according to the information that they had. They didn't know that the installation of the cladding had breached the integrity of the building. Probably nobody did. But the fundamental fact is that no one had broken the law - apart from the tenants. The cladding was in accordance with building regulations (and is used all over the world). The builders who fitted the cladding (wrongly) probably didn't know how they were meant to attach the cladding. There was no requirement for a sprinker system when it was built. If the fire doors were damaged then who damaged them? And the wiring was dodgy (there were frequent small fires) but the tenants were overloading it. What pisses me off is that when the shit finally hits the fan (predictably) the tenants refuse to any responsibility, when they have the primary responsibility. All they want to do is try and make money out of it. And to the idiot waffling about Hillsborough the same thing happened there. The primary responsibility for that disaster lies with the drunken fans who turned up late and/or without tickets and forced their way in - crushing the people at the front. Yet these cretins have spent decades trying to get the police blamed for it. There should be absolutely no need for ANY police presence at a football match. If the clubs can't host a football match without disorder breaking out then they should banned from holding matches. Expecting a few police to be able to prevent vast numbers of drunken fans from causing mayhem is ludicrous. |
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Post by Handyman on Feb 4, 2023 16:41:09 GMT
Yes I was aware it was an old Tower Block it should have been pulled down years ago, yes I know the fire spread quickly and yes some are playing the tragedy for all its worth , I also remember what happened at Hillsborough and the behaviour of some fans
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2023 17:48:55 GMT
My father-in-law was a retained fireman and did hundreds of callouts. He died, aged 78 of asbestosis. (Mesothelioma).
Many of his colleagues also died of tumours in the lungs, it seems to be common amongst firefighters.
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Post by Vinny on Feb 7, 2023 8:19:12 GMT
As originally built, without cladding, a fire in one flat would be contained to the one flat by firewalls. As a result guidance was such that in case of fire stay put.
But, the cladding caused the fire to spread.
A tenant with dodgy appliances is one thing, people overloading their mains is bad too.
But to wish death on them? These are not war criminals or rapists we're talking about.
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Post by steppenwolf on Feb 11, 2023 7:20:54 GMT
The cladding was meant to be "compartmentalised" too, but it had been wrongly fitted. The cladding met safety regulations and, if fitted properly, was safe. In fact there was an example of a posh tower block in Dubai (The Address) which had exactly the same cladding as Grenfell. It caught fire and the whole tower looked like a giant Roman Candle apparently with molten blobs of cladding flying off it, but no one was hurt and the apartments were OK. They were fitted properly.
I don't think anyone has "wished death on the tenants of Grenfell" - just pointed out that the behaviour of the tenants played a big part in causing the fire.
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 11, 2023 11:59:42 GMT
I'm saying that the primary cause of the fire was the tenants. The tenants were a bunch of freeloaders who mainly came to this country to sponge off the state. None of them could afford to live in one of the most expensive places in the world - yet they complained when they were put in an old tower block. If they didn't like it they had the choice of paying for their own accommodation. Beggars can't be choosers. To make matters worse these bastards were trying to make money by subletting their flats - or even having many families living in one flat. This was a violation of their agreement and directly led to the electrical problems that the flats had. Some of them also had flammable materials in their flats contrary to their tenancy agreement. They were WELL aware that this was leading to overloading of the electrical circuits but all they did was "complain to the council". How about getting off their backsides and sorting out the problems by not stacking adaptors on the sockets etc. And the bloke whose dodgy fridge caused the initial fire was mainly concerned with packing his belongings and buggering off rather than calling the fire brigade. I used to live in an old tower block in Holland. There were no problems there at all because the tenants took care of the place. They didn't go round pissing in the lifts and breaking their tenancy agreements and dealing in drugs or subletting to multiple families etc. These people brought it on themselves and now they're trying to make money out of it. And nobody in the govt or council has the balls to tell the truth because immigrants/muslims/freeloaders seem to be able to get away with anything in this country. No one has the balls to tell the truth. As for the cladding being flammable, bollocks. All cladding is flammable. Everything is flammable - it's just the temperature at which it burns that changes. The cladding conformed to building regulations and is in use all over the world, with few problems. I'm not interested in this bleeding heart crap. And fuck the grenfellactiongroup. I'm surprised you didn't find any Hillsborough disaster escapees listed among the residents while you were sifting through the tenancy agreements and identifying proscribed flammable materials in the building... |
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Post by patman post on Feb 11, 2023 12:45:03 GMT
Yes I was aware it was an old Tower Block it should have been pulled down years ago, yes I know the fire spread quickly and yes some are playing the tragedy for all its worth , I also remember what happened at Hillsborough and the behaviour of some fans You were at both events? Or are you remembering allegations…? |
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Post by Handyman on Feb 11, 2023 13:46:09 GMT
Yes I was aware it was an old Tower Block it should have been pulled down years ago, yes I know the fire spread quickly and yes some are playing the tragedy for all its worth , I also remember what happened at Hillsborough and the behaviour of some fans You were at both events? Or are you remembering allegations…? If I had been I would have said so , I posted my opinions on both , were you at either of them ? if not are you just remembering the coverage of both as I did ? |
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