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Post by Morgan on Feb 2, 2023 15:48:05 GMT
Do you like quotations ? I do. Short ones like "No man is island. " etc. ad infinitum but sometimes you come across a paragraph or so which makes valid points and really gives you something to think about. In my edition of The Pickwick Papers which was published originally as a fortnightly serial, there is a frontispiece by Charles Dickens which really made me stop and think before I'd even started to read the book itself.
This is it. Read it and see if, like me, you agree with virtually every word of the sentiments expressed.
Who knows, by the time the series reaches its conclusion, it may be discovered that that there are even magistrates in town and country who should be taught to shake hands with every day with common sense and justice ; that even Poor Laws may have mercy on the weak the aged and unfortunate; that schools on the broad principles of Christianity are the best adornment for the length and breath of this civilised land; that prison doors should be barred on the outside no less carefully than they are barred from within; that the universal diffusion of decency and health is as much the right of the poorest of the poor as it is indispensable to the safety of the rich and the state; that a few petty boards and bodies - less than drops in the great ocean of humanity which roars around them - are not forever to let Fever and Consumption on God's creatures at their will or always keep their jobbing little fiddles going for a Dance of Death.
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Post by Ripley on Feb 2, 2023 16:31:03 GMT
Do you like quotations ? I do. Short ones like "No man is island. " etc. ad infinitum but sometimes you come across a paragraph or so which makes valid points and really gives you something to think about. In my edition of The Pickwick Papers which was published originally as a fortnightly serial, there is a frontispiece by Charles Dickens which really made me stop and think before I'd even started to read the book itself. This is it. Read it and see if, like me, you agree with virtually every word of the sentiments expressed. Who knows, by the time the series reaches its conclusion, it may be discovered that that there are even magistrates in town and country who should be taught to shake hands with every day with common sense and justice ; that even Poor Laws may have mercy on the weak the aged and unfortunate; that schools on the broad principles of Christianity are the best adornment for the length and breath of this civilised land; that prison doors should be barred on the outside no less carefully than they are barred from within; that the universal diffusion of decency and health is as much the right of the poorest of the poor as it is indispensable to the safety of the rich and the state; that a few petty boards and bodies - less than drops in the great ocean of humanity which roars around them - are not forever to let Fever and Consumption on God's creatures at their will or always keep their jobbing little fiddles going for a Dance of Death. A lot has changed since the mid 19th century. Today, I would question the reference to Christian schools, or schools based on Christian principles. Dickens was fiercely anti-Catholic, so we can safely assume that he isn’t touting Catholicism but the Protestant variety of Christianity. But which brand of Protestantism? There are about a dozen denominations including Adventist, Anabaptist, Anglican, Baptist, Evangelical, Lutheran, Methodist, Pentecostal, Quaker, Calvinist and so on. These are Western forms of Christianity, but maybe he was referencing Eastern denominations – Eastern Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant, or perhaps Restorationist denominations such as Jehovah’s Witness or Latter Day Saint (Mormon)? Not only are there many forms of Christianity, but many religions. How would school administrators ever be able to choose one religion/denomination among many to teach? My personal belief is that religion is a private matter best kept at home and not in schools. |
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Post by Morgan on Feb 3, 2023 7:12:41 GMT
I think the answer lies in the word "broad." There are, as you say, many forms of Christianity but surely the "broad principles " of not harming others but "loving your neighbour" would apply to virtually all of those who claim to be Christians. What ceremonies/prayers/dress etc. they carry out is a comparatively minor issue compared to their actions.
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Post by Orac on Feb 3, 2023 10:06:04 GMT
In broad principle, Christianity is a social template. Adherents to Christian notions such as love thy neighbour etc, give social co-operation the ground it needs to develop.
However, anyone will tell you that the policy of being eternally nice doesn't work if those you are being nice to have no intention to reciprocate and instead see your stance as an opportunity. People used to be able to do this in their heads quite easily because it was a plain, unavoidable reality in front of them. It's possible that what plagues us now is a run-away and dysfunctional philosophical descendent of Christianity, in which the adherents square the circle of self sacrifice vs survival by sacrificing others for their ideals. It's fine to say you will take the strays into your own house, you are engaging in self sacrifice - the risk is yours. However, when you decide such a policy for everyone around you, the risk and sacrifice is not yours.
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Post by besoeker3 on Feb 3, 2023 12:20:22 GMT
Brevity is the soul of wit.
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Post by Morgan on Feb 3, 2023 14:18:45 GMT
In broad principle, Christianity is a social template. Adherents to Christian notions such as love thy neighbour etc, give social co-operation the ground it needs to develop. However, anyone will tell you that the policy of being eternally nice doesn't work if those you are being nice to have no intention to reciprocate and instead see your stance as an opportunity. People used to be able to do this in their heads quite easily because it was a plain, unavoidable reality in front of them. It's possible that what plagues us now is a run-away and dysfunctional philosophical descendent of Christianity, in which the adherents square the circle of self sacrifice vs survival by sacrificing others for their ideals. It's fine to say you will take the strays into your own house, you are engaging in self sacrifice - the risk is yours. However, when you decide such a policy for everyone around you, the risk and sacrifice is not yours. Which brings to mind another quotation "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." G.K. Chesterton. |
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Post by Ripley on Feb 3, 2023 17:06:47 GMT
I think the answer lies in the word "broad." There are, as you say, many forms of Christianity but surely the "broad principles " of not harming others but "loving your neighbour" would apply to virtually all of those who claim to be Christians. What ceremonies/prayers/dress etc. they carry out is a comparatively minor issue compared to their actions. Point taken, but I still think that while it's fine to teach religion in private religious schools where the parents have some choice about the curriculum, religion should be left out of state-run schools. If the state sponsors or promotes any one religion, many adherents of other religions and atheists will protest that their brand of broad principles is better. What parent would want their children's school teaching some religion they didn't approve of? Religion is best kept private, at home, in my opinion. |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 5, 2023 18:35:28 GMT
I think the answer lies in the word "broad." There are, as you say, many forms of Christianity but surely the "broad principles " of not harming others but "loving your neighbour" would apply to virtually all of those who claim to be Christians. What ceremonies/prayers/dress etc. they carry out is a comparatively minor issue compared to their actions. Obviously not the broadsa I had in mind.  |
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Post by Morgan on Feb 6, 2023 15:06:16 GMT
I think the answer lies in the word "broad." There are, as you say, many forms of Christianity but surely the "broad principles " of not harming others but "loving your neighbour" would apply to virtually all of those who claim to be Christians. What ceremonies/prayers/dress etc. they carry out is a comparatively minor issue compared to their actions. Obviously not the broadsa I had in mind. You filthy beast!! I shall send the vicar round to pray for your soul.  |
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 7, 2023 23:02:47 GMT
A favourite quote for me is: "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh". I've liked it for years because it's so true, not necessarily because of it's religious connotations, but because it pokes a finger at followers, people who are easilly led. The downside of course, as some will know, I'm quoting a Frenchie, merde.
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Post by Ripley on Feb 7, 2023 23:17:59 GMT
A favourite quote for me is: " God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh". I've liked it for years because it's so true, not necessarily because of it's religious connotations, but because it pokes a finger at followers, people who are easilly led. The downside of course, as some will know, I'm quoting a Frenchie, merde. Attributed, or misattributed to Voltaire but not found in his collected works. Also attributed to early 20th century American author H.L. Mencken. "Creator: A comedian whose audience is afraid to laugh. Three proofs of His humor: democracy, hay fever, any fat woman." H. L. Mencken A Mencken Chrestomathy (1949) |
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 7, 2023 23:29:29 GMT
A favourite quote for me is: " God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh". I've liked it for years because it's so true, not necessarily because of it's religious connotations, but because it pokes a finger at followers, people who are easilly led. The downside of course, as some will know, I'm quoting a Frenchie, merde. Attributed, or misattributed to Voltaire but not found in his collected works. Also attributed to early 20th century American author H.L. Mencken. "Creator: A comedian whose audience is afraid to laugh. Three proofs of His humor: democracy, hay fever, any fat woman." H. L. Mencken A Mencken Chrestomathy (1949) No kidding, well there you go. I didn't know there was any speculation about the origins of that particular quote. I've never heard of H L Mencken. Not to worry, it's a great quote. |
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Post by oracle75 on Feb 11, 2023 9:12:01 GMT
Looks like Voltaire got there first.
Menken used the quote to get a laugh.
Voltaire, 18th century
Mencken, first half of 20th century.
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