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Post by buccaneer on Jan 27, 2023 22:55:48 GMT
I have given you indisputable facts: (1) The UK is the only economy in the G7 that has failed to return to pre-pandemic levels. (2) The UK is the only country that has to deal with Brexit. Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the US all have managed to return to pre-pandemic levels and they have one common denominator: All of them do not have the Brexit monkey on their backs. The UK is the only one with the Brexit monkey on its back. With such relevant and related facts, you don't need an Einstein to tell you that Brexit has had and continue to have a negative impact on the UK economy. Your link even confirms that it has had a negative impact. Your link just attempts to diminish and belittle that impact. Just like what you're doing here. Whether my narrative is curated or not is not the challenge. Your challenge is to provide hard evidence that Brexit has NOT had a negative impact on the UK economy and businesses since you're so hung on up hard evidence. So, where is your hard evidence? Again: (a) 6 of the 7 G7 countries managed to get back to pre-pandemic levels . That is an objective truth. (b) Only the UK has failed to get back to pre-pandemic level. That is another objective truth. (c) Only the UK has to drag extra baggage called Brexit. Another objective truth. So, tell me; what other relevant conclusion can you draw from such truths except for that Brexit has had and continue to have negative effect on the UK economy? Nothing else. Is there? No, it isn't a fact that "the UK has had low productive and grown when it was in the Single Market." Here, just to rectify your misstatement and false information: From the NIESR: "The United Kingdom’s economy has been plagued by anaemic productivity growth since the 2008-09 global financial crisis. Between 1974 and 2008, the UK’s productivity grew at an average rate of 2.3% a year, a much higher rate than the growth rate between 2008 and 2020 at around 0.5%."
No you haven't. You've claim the G7 economy has failed to return to pre-pandemic levels because it is the only nation to deal with Brexit. Rudimental thinking. Here is what remainer Jeremy Hunt has stated about Britain's economy and it is far more accurate than anything you have concocted: "Like every G7 country, our growth was slower in the years after the financial crisis than before it". "But since 2010, the UK has grown faster than France, Japan and Italy. Not at the bottom, but right in the middle of the pack." "Since the Brexit referendum, we have grown at around the same rate as Germany." "Yes, we haven't returned to pre-pandemic employment or output levels, but an economy that contracted 20 percent in a pandemic still has nearly the lowest employment for half-a-century". "Whilst our public sector continues to recover more slowly than we would like from the pandemic, strengthening the case for reform, our private sector has grown seven-and-a-half percent in the last year." "Yes, inflation has risen, but it is still lower than in 14 EU countries, with interest rates rising more slowly than in the US or Canada." "Last week, a survey of business leaders by PWC said the UK was the third for CEOs expanding their businesses. "The strongest grounds for optimism comes not from debating this or that way of analysing data, but from what we have been hearing about this morning - our long-term prospects. "When it comes to the innovation industries that will shape and define this century, the UK is powerfully positioned to play a leading role." |
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Post by see2 on Jan 27, 2023 23:11:08 GMT
We left, you are still whinging. Exactly. The funniest thing is these people claim to be lefties. Dennis Skinner is a leftie and he campaigned for leave. There is nothing left wing about the EU. And with the Commission in charge of policy writing, not much democratic about it either. With absolutely no authority to pass anything into action. Makes your insinuation rather a waste of time doesn't it ? |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 28, 2023 10:00:25 GMT
As they're the only ones who can write policy there's a big disconnect between the voter and the policy maker.
And that is not democratic.
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Post by buccaneer on Jan 29, 2023 9:58:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2023 14:08:05 GMT
I have given you indisputable facts: (1) The UK is the only economy in the G7 that has failed to return to pre-pandemic levels. (2) The UK is the only country that has to deal with Brexit. Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the US all have managed to return to pre-pandemic levels and they have one common denominator: All of them do not have the Brexit monkey on their backs. The UK is the only one with the Brexit monkey on its back. With such relevant and related facts, you don't need an Einstein to tell you that Brexit has had and continue to have a negative impact on the UK economy. Your link even confirms that it has had a negative impact. Your link just attempts to diminish and belittle that impact. Just like what you're doing here. Whether my narrative is curated or not is not the challenge. Your challenge is to provide hard evidence that Brexit has NOT had a negative impact on the UK economy and businesses since you're so hung on up hard evidence. So, where is your hard evidence? Again: (a) 6 of the 7 G7 countries managed to get back to pre-pandemic levels . That is an objective truth. (b) Only the UK has failed to get back to pre-pandemic level. That is another objective truth. (c) Only the UK has to drag extra baggage called Brexit. Another objective truth. So, tell me; what other relevant conclusion can you draw from such truths except for that Brexit has had and continue to have negative effect on the UK economy? Nothing else. Is there? No, it isn't a fact that "the UK has had low productive and grown when it was in the Single Market." Here, just to rectify your misstatement and false information: From the NIESR: "The United Kingdom’s economy has been plagued by anaemic productivity growth since the 2008-09 global financial crisis. Between 1974 and 2008, the UK’s productivity grew at an average rate of 2.3% a year, a much higher rate than the growth rate between 2008 and 2020 at around 0.5%."
No you haven't. You've claim the G7 economy has failed to return to pre-pandemic levels because it is the only nation to deal with Brexit. Rudimental thinking. Here is what remainer Jeremy Hunt has stated about Britain's economy and it is far more accurate than anything you have concocted: "Like every G7 country, our growth was slower in the years after the financial crisis than before it". "But since 2010, the UK has grown faster than France, Japan and Italy. Not at the bottom, but right in the middle of the pack." "Since the Brexit referendum, we have grown at around the same rate as Germany." "Yes, we haven't returned to pre-pandemic employment or output levels, but an economy that contracted 20 percent in a pandemic still has nearly the lowest employment for half-a-century". "Whilst our public sector continues to recover more slowly than we would like from the pandemic, strengthening the case for reform, our private sector has grown seven-and-a-half percent in the last year." "Yes, inflation has risen, but it is still lower than in 14 EU countries, with interest rates rising more slowly than in the US or Canada." "Last week, a survey of business leaders by PWC said the UK was the third for CEOs expanding their businesses. "The strongest grounds for optimism comes not from debating this or that way of analysing data, but from what we have been hearing about this morning - our long-term prospects. "When it comes to the innovation industries that will shape and define this century, the UK is powerfully positioned to play a leading role." Again: It is indisputable that (a) The UK is the only G7 country whose economy has failed to return to pre-pandemic level and (b) the UK is the only G7 country whose economy has the added burden of Brexit. Even Jeremy Hunt admitted it. He said "Yes, we haven't returned to pre-pandemic employment or output levels, ..." But please, don't go on about the the rest of his speech. They are ice-cold comfort and do not absolve Brexit and certainly do not negate the facts I have given you. G7 countries are now picking up the pieces after the pandemic. So is the UK. But the UK is hampered by the fact that it shot itself in the foot with Brexit. Rudimentary thinking is when you are unable to recognise the very obvious. It's staring you in the face and you still can't see it. Or refuse to see it. Stop being kind to Brexit. Brexit is not kind to you. The monster doesn't love you back. If you don't want to kill it, then at least tame it. |
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Post by bancroft on Jan 29, 2023 14:17:23 GMT
@gnome
If we go back in an English party harder than UKIP will rise and will rewrite the Barnett formula and probably break up the UK within the EU as we would all be using the Euro like the break up of Yugoslavia without the wars.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2023 17:54:20 GMT
@gnome If we go back in an English party harder than UKIP will rise and will rewrite the Barnett formula and probably break up the UK within the EU as we would all be using the Euro like the break up of Yugoslavia without the wars. You are verbalising the Tory Party's worst nightmare. In a scenario where there are no moderate conservatives, the first and only thing to break up would be the Tory Party. For the rest of the UK, though, it should not be an overly major concern. Judging by the current thinking and attitudes, our return (if ever) to the EU would definitely have the support of the majority. Brexit or Johnson's Brexit which even the Sunak government is hellbent on pursuing has made the break up of the UK a very distinct possibility with the very vociferous leave-the-Union faction (majority?) in Scotland and Northern Ireland using the damage Brexit has inflicted upon us. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jan 29, 2023 21:13:09 GMT
No you haven't. You've claim the G7 economy has failed to return to pre-pandemic levels because it is the only nation to deal with Brexit. Rudimental thinking. Here is what remainer Jeremy Hunt has stated about Britain's economy and it is far more accurate than anything you have concocted: "Like every G7 country, our growth was slower in the years after the financial crisis than before it". "But since 2010, the UK has grown faster than France, Japan and Italy. Not at the bottom, but right in the middle of the pack." "Since the Brexit referendum, we have grown at around the same rate as Germany." "Yes, we haven't returned to pre-pandemic employment or output levels, but an economy that contracted 20 percent in a pandemic still has nearly the lowest employment for half-a-century". "Whilst our public sector continues to recover more slowly than we would like from the pandemic, strengthening the case for reform, our private sector has grown seven-and-a-half percent in the last year." "Yes, inflation has risen, but it is still lower than in 14 EU countries, with interest rates rising more slowly than in the US or Canada." "Last week, a survey of business leaders by PWC said the UK was the third for CEOs expanding their businesses. "The strongest grounds for optimism comes not from debating this or that way of analysing data, but from what we have been hearing about this morning - our long-term prospects. "When it comes to the innovation industries that will shape and define this century, the UK is powerfully positioned to play a leading role." Again: It is indisputable that (a) The UK is the only G7 country whose economy has failed to return to pre-pandemic level and (b) the UK is the only G7 country whose economy has the added burden of Brexit. Even Jeremy Hunt admitted it. He said "Yes, we haven't returned to pre-pandemic employment or output levels, ..." But please, don't go on about the the rest of his speech. They are ice-cold comfort and do not absolve Brexit and certainly do not negate the facts I have given you. G7 countries are now picking up the pieces after the pandemic. So is the UK. But the UK is hampered by the fact that it shot itself in the foot with Brexit. Rudimentary thinking is when you are unable to recognise the very obvious. It's staring you in the face and you still can't see it. Or refuse to see it. Stop being kind to Brexit. Brexit is not kind to you. The monster doesn't love you back. If you don't want to kill it, then at least tame it. Correlation isn't causation. Sorry, you've provided no evidence that Brexit has had a negative impact on the economy. |
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Post by bancroft on Jan 30, 2023 11:19:33 GMT
@gnome If we go back in an English party harder than UKIP will rise and will rewrite the Barnett formula and probably break up the UK within the EU as we would all be using the Euro like the break up of Yugoslavia without the wars. You are verbalising the Tory Party's worst nightmare. In a scenario where there are no moderate conservatives, the first and only thing to break up would be the Tory Party. For the rest of the UK, though, it should not be an overly major concern. Judging by the current thinking and attitudes, our return (if ever) to the EU would definitely have the support of the majority. Brexit or Johnson's Brexit which even the Sunak government is hellbent on pursuing has made the break up of the UK a very distinct possibility with the very vociferous leave-the-Union faction (majority?) in Scotland and Northern Ireland using the damage Brexit has inflicted upon us. Seems to be the knock-on effect from the Blair-Brown govt pushing devolution remember the Scots referendum was 2014 before the Brexit referendum. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 11:57:28 GMT
Again: It is indisputable that (a) The UK is the only G7 country whose economy has failed to return to pre-pandemic level and (b) the UK is the only G7 country whose economy has the added burden of Brexit. Even Jeremy Hunt admitted it. He said "Yes, we haven't returned to pre-pandemic employment or output levels, ..." But please, don't go on about the the rest of his speech. They are ice-cold comfort and do not absolve Brexit and certainly do not negate the facts I have given you. G7 countries are now picking up the pieces after the pandemic. So is the UK. But the UK is hampered by the fact that it shot itself in the foot with Brexit. Rudimentary thinking is when you are unable to recognise the very obvious. It's staring you in the face and you still can't see it. Or refuse to see it. Stop being kind to Brexit. Brexit is not kind to you. The monster doesn't love you back. If you don't want to kill it, then at least tame it. Correlation isn't causation. Sorry, you've provided no evidence that Brexit has had a negative impact on the economy. Fine, but you don't need Statistics 101 to see that Brexit is the reason why the UK has not been able to return to pre-pandemic level. It's just like s**t -- you don't need to taste it to know that it's s**t. I have given you facts that are impossible to refute. Facts that would make anyone with a bit of nous and realism see that it is Brexit that has damaged and continues to damage our economy. But you choose to reject and dismiss them outright so now the ball is in your court. It's your turn to prove me wrong and since you're so big on evidence -- where is you evidence that Brexit has NOT had a negative impact on the economy? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 12:05:29 GMT
You are verbalising the Tory Party's worst nightmare. In a scenario where there are no moderate conservatives, the first and only thing to break up would be the Tory Party. For the rest of the UK, though, it should not be an overly major concern. Judging by the current thinking and attitudes, our return (if ever) to the EU would definitely have the support of the majority. Brexit or Johnson's Brexit which even the Sunak government is hellbent on pursuing has made the break up of the UK a very distinct possibility with the very vociferous leave-the-Union faction (majority?) in Scotland and Northern Ireland using the damage Brexit has inflicted upon us. Seems to be the knock-on effect from the Blair-Brown govt pushing devolution remember the Scots referendum was 2014 before the Brexit referendum. Seems to be, yes. However, Brexit has given Scots something almost tangible to hold on to. Whereas in 2014, it was just sheer sentiment; now there's substance and direction to it. They can now argue that they wanted and voted to stay in the EU but its union with England and Wales is preventing it so they must leave and must be allowed to leave that union. |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 30, 2023 12:58:46 GMT
Seems to be the knock-on effect from the Blair-Brown govt pushing devolution remember the Scots referendum was 2014 before the Brexit referendum. Whereas in 2014, it was just sheer sentiment; now there's substance and direction to it. They can now argue that they wanted and voted to stay in the EU but its union with England and Wales is preventing it so they must leave and must be allowed to leave that union. Scotland was never in the EUSSR FFS. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 30, 2023 13:06:03 GMT
For the Scot indies every road leads to independence. If it wasn’t Brexit then it would be something else.
Does anyone believe that if the UK was still in the EU then the usual suspects would be even a tiny bit quieter ?
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Post by Toreador on Jan 30, 2023 13:10:27 GMT
Seems to be the knock-on effect from the Blair-Brown govt pushing devolution remember the Scots referendum was 2014 before the Brexit referendum. Seems to be, yes. However, Brexit has given Scots something almost tangible to hold on to. Whereas in 2014, it was just sheer sentiment; now there's substance and direction to it. They can now argue that they wanted and voted to stay in the EU but its union with England and Wales is preventing it so they must leave and must be allowed to leave that union. Any lack of success can be traced to people like you bleating and moaning because you lost. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2023 13:30:20 GMT
For the Scot indies every road leads to independence. If it wasn’t Brexit then it would be something else. Does anyone believe that if the UK was still in the EU then the usual suspects would be even a tiny bit quieter ? I do not disagree with you on this. What I am saying, though, is that Brexit has given substance and justification to the Scots' otherwise idealistic and unconvincing argument for leaving the United Kingdom. |
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