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Post by see2 on Jan 16, 2023 16:39:34 GMT
The fact that you must be a member to be in the EU is correct... Good, then you accept that your previous assertion that they have nothing to do with each other was incorrect. Progress at least. ...As already pointed out we joined back in the 50s,so our joining both the EEC and the EU were unaffected by the requirement, so why would leaving?... Don't be so naive: The ever increasing number of ridiculous "Human Rights" cases certainly played a large part in the average leavers voting decision. And the UK were members BEFORE joining the EU. So the ECRH was effective in the UK with or without joining the EU. In which case it was not a weapon to be used against our membership of the EU, except by numpties. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 16, 2023 18:58:07 GMT
The fact that you must be a member to be in the EU is correct... Good, then you accept that your previous assertion that they have nothing to do with each other was incorrect. Progress at least. ...As already pointed out we joined back in the 50s,so our joining both the EEC and the EU were unaffected by the requirement, so why would leaving?... Don't be so naive: The ever increasing number of ridiculous "Human Rights" cases certainly played a large part in the average leavers voting decision. If they did, then they didn't know what they were voting for. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 16, 2023 19:01:46 GMT
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Post by Bentley on Jan 16, 2023 19:02:49 GMT
I know. Round and round we go😁 |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 16, 2023 20:24:30 GMT
Don't be obtuse. You deliberately are trying to misunderstand my point. I am not saying that leave voters didn't know what they were voting for. I'm saying that if they thought that by voting Leave they thought that meant leaving the ECHR, then they did not know what they were voting for. |
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Post by Toreador on Jan 16, 2023 20:28:28 GMT
Don't be obtuse. You deliberately are trying to misunderstand my point. I am not saying that leave voters didn't know what they were voting for. I'm saying that if they thought that by voting Leave they thought that meant leaving the ECHR, then they did not know what they were voting for. How many leavers do you even consider voted on the basis of the ECHR; same question for Remnants? |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 16, 2023 21:27:57 GMT
I know. Round and round we go😁  |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 16, 2023 21:30:47 GMT
Don't be obtuse. You deliberately are trying to misunderstand my point. I am not saying that leave voters didn't know what they were voting for. I'm saying that if they thought that by voting Leave they thought that meant leaving the ECHR, then they did not know what they were voting for.  |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 16, 2023 21:54:04 GMT
Don't be obtuse. You deliberately are trying to misunderstand my point. I am not saying that leave voters didn't know what they were voting for. I'm saying that if they thought that by voting Leave they thought that meant leaving the ECHR, then they did not know what they were voting for. How many leavers do you even consider voted on the basis of the ECHR; same question for Remnants? I'd hope none at all, but it wasn't me that alleged they did! 😂 |
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Post by buccaneer on Jan 16, 2023 23:49:36 GMT
You are missing the point. Because the UK is not now able to live and work more than 6 months in any one year, s/he would have to leave the EU for the other half of the year because s/he does not come under EU law anymore. There is nothing Estonia or any other country can do to change that. No - you have that totally wrong. Anyone who wants to go and work in Estonia that is not from an EU or EEA country needs a work visa which you apply for at your local embassy. The work visa (if issued) is valid for one year and can be transferred into a temporary residence permit valid for 5 years and is renewable. Same process as used by pretty much every country around the globe. Yes. Thought Oracle had that wrong. Not even the EU should or could be able to refuse work visas for supposed national democracies in Europe. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jan 16, 2023 23:52:12 GMT
What's your point here exactly? That a Romanian should have an automatic entitlement to live and work in the UK? No, the point is that such practices already take place within the UK. So why not in the EU? I don't really care what the EU do with re. to entitling foreigners to live and work where they so choose. So long as the UK isn't a part of it. It is a privilege and not a right to live and work in another country. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 17, 2023 7:53:03 GMT
Don't be obtuse. You deliberately are trying to misunderstand my point. I am not saying that leave voters didn't know what they were voting for. I'm saying that if they thought that by voting Leave they thought that meant leaving the ECHR, then they did not know what they were voting for. Don't be silly, Andy. Most people realise (and even you've admitted) that membership of the EU and ECHR are inextricably linked. And, if we wish to withdraw from the ECHR, which would be popular (and is being talked about by our politicians) then leaving the EU is a necessary first step. And personally, I believe that our continued membership of the ECHR will come under increasing scrutiny in the coming years. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 17, 2023 9:09:35 GMT
No - you have that totally wrong. Anyone who wants to go and work in Estonia that is not from an EU or EEA country needs a work visa which you apply for at your local embassy. The work visa (if issued) is valid for one year and can be transferred into a temporary residence permit valid for 5 years and is renewable. Same process as used by pretty much every country around the globe. Yes. Thought Oracle had that wrong. Not even the EU should or could be able to refuse work visas for supposed national democracies in Europe. I didn't say that. I said that the conditions to work in another country now exist where they didn't before. Just think of the conditions involved in the UK's work permit that EU citizens have to meet. Nothing but more barriers, paperwork and conditions. Our loss. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 17, 2023 9:13:22 GMT
Don't be obtuse. You deliberately are trying to misunderstand my point. I am not saying that leave voters didn't know what they were voting for. I'm saying that if they thought that by voting Leave they thought that meant leaving the ECHR, then they did not know what they were voting for. Don't be silly, Andy. Most people realise (and even you've admitted) that membership of the EU and ECHR are inextricably linked. And, if we wish to withdraw from the ECHR, which would be popular (and is being talked about by our politicians) then leaving the EU is a necessary first step. And personally, I believe that our continued membership of the ECHR will come under increasing scrutiny in the coming years. I hope the UK changes it for the better. The ECHR protects everyone from being exploited, from human trafficking to health and safety in any workplace. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 17, 2023 9:23:31 GMT
Don't be obtuse. You deliberately are trying to misunderstand my point. I am not saying that leave voters didn't know what they were voting for. I'm saying that if they thought that by voting Leave they thought that meant leaving the ECHR, then they did not know what they were voting for. How many leavers do you even consider voted on the basis of the ECHR; same question for Remnants? I don't think anyone knows, but didn't a leaver recently post on this forum that it was one of the reasons for leaving? "Remnants" is insult and likely to encourage reciprocal insults  |
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