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Post by Bentley on Jan 21, 2023 15:30:27 GMT
Look at Labours record on the NHS Took over in 1997 with unacceptable waiting lists and waiting times Turned them around, waiting lists fell dramatically, as did waiting times Employed thousands of extra nurses and doctors All of this was done without any extra borrowing or tax increases to the public The workload of Junior Doctors was appaling and damn right dangerous up until 1997, the incoming Labour government fixed the problem. Stop defending the indefensible and attacking those that want to fix our NHS, Labour fixed it before, so do the right thing, give them the chance to do it again, and get rid of this shower of shit. Indeed. I don’t know about the borrowing but my experiences with the NHS drastically changed for the better after NL . |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2023 15:37:42 GMT
Yes it was Bentley
Most of the funds to turn around the NHS came from the fact that the economy boomed, growth was strong throughout the period and also through Windfall Taxes, huge sums of money came from selling off and licensing the radio spectrum to mobile phone companies.
The only thing that pushed borrowing beyond sustainable levels was the Banking Crisis which came in 2007, ten years after coming to power, and then the recession which followed on from that.
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Post by zanygame on Jan 21, 2023 15:55:02 GMT
I have no wish to play ping pong with you, so I will only repeat once more, that circumstances have changed meaning some of the promises are not longer affordable at this time. That you ignore that and put it down to lying new labour implies to me that this is what you want it to be rather than what it is. It was obvious to me right from the very start that he never meant the promises in the first place, but we'll get nowhere by continuing with this other than by producing another me versus See 2 type slanging match. You are happy with his broken promises and approve of them so naturally want to see them in the best possible light as thoughtful changes of mind. I am far less happy with them and thus see them as promises intended deceitfully to be broken from the very start, citing as evidence his Blairite backers and the things they were saying. I see deliberate dishonesty whilst you think you see honest changes of mind. We'll have to agree to differ on that. Lets move away from the whole 'I'm brainwashed New Labour and you're a communist' crap and look at the broken promises one at a time and see which I wanted broken, which I see necessary to be broken and which I think should not have been broken. Which broken promise was most important to you. |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 21, 2023 15:56:50 GMT
Look at Labours record on the NHS Took over in 1997 with unacceptable waiting lists and waiting times Turned them around, waiting lists fell dramatically, as did waiting times Employed thousands of extra nurses and doctors All of this was done without any extra borrowing or tax increases to the public The workload of Junior Doctors was appaling and damn right dangerous up until 1997, the incoming Labour government fixed the problem. Stop defending the indefensible and attacking those that want to fix our NHS, Labour fixed it before, so do the right thing, give them the chance to do it again, and get rid of this shower of shit. In the first term there was no extra on balance sheet borrowing and no tax increases, but PFI was off balance sheet. It built up debt for the future. 2nd term, there was an official consultation period which ended in Sept 2001. Borrowing went up excessively and taxation went up too. Whereas they'd run a surplus in the first term, they began to run a deficit and carried on doing. By 2007 the economy had a deficit time bomb. Then the crash happened. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 21, 2023 16:04:18 GMT
Look at Labours record on the NHS Took over in 1997 with unacceptable waiting lists and waiting times Turned them around, waiting lists fell dramatically, as did waiting times Employed thousands of extra nurses and doctors All of this was done without any extra borrowing or tax increases to the public The workload of Junior Doctors was appaling and damn right dangerous up until 1997, the incoming Labour government fixed the problem. Stop defending the indefensible and attacking those that want to fix our NHS, Labour fixed it before, so do the right thing, give them the chance to do it again, and get rid of this shower of shit. In the first term there was no extra on balance sheet borrowing and no tax increases, but PFI was off balance sheet. It built up debt for the future. 2nd term, there was an official consultation period which ended in Sept 2001. Borrowing went up excessively and taxation went up too. Whereas they'd run a surplus in the first term, they began to run a deficit and carried on doing. By 2007 the economy had a deficit time bomb. Then the crash happened. Err nope. Government borrowing remained pretty static between 1992 and 2008 as was consistently lower than previously under the Tories  |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 21, 2023 16:06:11 GMT
Like I said, PFI was "off balance sheet".
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Post by zanygame on Jan 21, 2023 16:11:16 GMT
Like I said, PFI was "off balance sheet". Sorry my bad. How was that a ticking time bomb? In government borrowing terms its pretty small fry. |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 21, 2023 16:55:00 GMT
Look at what happened in 2007 when everything went tits up. There was a world recession in 2000 when the dot com boom went bust, but we were ok. Reason being, we were in surplus at the time. Our debts were falling and had been since 1996. They started rising again in 2001. Had he stuck to the Ken Clarke plan, national debt would have kept falling. www.economicshelp.org/blog/7568/debt/government-debt-under-labour-1997-2010/ |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 21, 2023 17:10:18 GMT
Look at what happened in 2007 when everything went tits up. There was a world recession in 2000 when the dot com boom went bust, but we were ok. Reason being, we were in surplus at the time. Our debts were falling and had been since 1996. They started rising again in 2001. Had he stuck to the Ken Clarke plan, national debt would have kept falling. www.economicshelp.org/blog/7568/debt/government-debt-under-labour-1997-2010/So you were talking about debt then. I refer you to my chart. Yours is an old argument that had New Labour been even better than they already were then the debts would have been even smaller than they were when the crash happened then it would have been better. Seems pretty mealy minded to me. It forgets that New Labour gave us 11 years of stable growing economy. That we have never seen boom bust interest rates since they stopped that scam. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 21, 2023 17:33:58 GMT
Yes it was Bentley Most of the funds to turn around the NHS came from the fact that the economy boomed, growth was strong throughout the period and also through Windfall Taxes, huge sums of money came from selling off and licensing the radio spectrum to mobile phone companies. The only thing that pushed borrowing beyond sustainable levels was the Banking Crisis which came in 2007, ten years after coming to power, and then the recession which followed on from that. Well for the first 3 years Labour followed Tory spending policies (and the economic boom they inherited) and the windfall taxes from flogging off the radio spectrum are not likely to be found again. So the economic situation is going to be very different this time around - a time of economic stagnation, with the country already at modern record tax levels and record public spending. The space for great expansions of funding for the NHS is a damn site smaller than it was in the 90's |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 21, 2023 17:35:24 GMT
The economy was already stable before New Labour came to power, they took Ken Clarke's groundwork and carried on with it initially.
Typical Labour to ignore his work (I don't and I can't stand that Hush Puppy wearing jazz loving git, but,) he did good on the economy, I can't fault his record as Chancellor of the Exchequer.
At least Ken Clarke didn't flog off our gold at bargain basement prices, screw pensioners over with excessive tax raids on their pensions, or bankrupt phone companies with ridiculous 3g auctions.
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Post by zanygame on Jan 21, 2023 18:26:07 GMT
The economy was already stable before New Labour came to power, they took Ken Clarke's groundwork and carried on with it initially. Typical Labour to ignore his work (I don't and I can't stand that Hush Puppy wearing jazz loving git, but,) he did good on the economy, I can't fault his record as Chancellor of the Exchequer. At least Ken Clarke didn't flog off our gold at bargain basement prices, screw pensioners over with excessive tax raids on their pensions, or bankrupt phone companies with ridiculous 3g auctions. Well as someone who just about lived through the ERM disaster in 1992 and the enormous interest rates that followed, I have to disagree. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 21, 2023 18:38:01 GMT
The economy was already stable before New Labour came to power, they took Ken Clarke's groundwork and carried on with it initially. Typical Labour to ignore his work (I don't and I can't stand that Hush Puppy wearing jazz loving git, but,) he did good on the economy, I can't fault his record as Chancellor of the Exchequer. At least Ken Clarke didn't flog off our gold at bargain basement prices, screw pensioners over with excessive tax raids on their pensions, or bankrupt phone companies with ridiculous 3g auctions. Well as someone who just about lived through the ERM disaster in 1992 and the enormous interest rates that followed, I have to disagree. ?? - by 1993 base rates were down to the 5% range and stayed around there all the way up to the financial crash in 2008.. It was dropping out of the ERM that allowed rates to fall. |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 21, 2023 18:59:25 GMT
The economy was already stable before New Labour came to power, they took Ken Clarke's groundwork and carried on with it initially. Typical Labour to ignore his work (I don't and I can't stand that Hush Puppy wearing jazz loving git, but,) he did good on the economy, I can't fault his record as Chancellor of the Exchequer. At least Ken Clarke didn't flog off our gold at bargain basement prices, screw pensioners over with excessive tax raids on their pensions, or bankrupt phone companies with ridiculous 3g auctions. Well as someone who just about lived through the ERM disaster in 1992 and the enormous interest rates that followed, I have to disagree. John Major took us into that, Norman Lamont was Chancellor of the Exchequer when it happened. Norman Lamont was under orders from John Major to try to keep us in the ERM. Norman Lamont lost his job as Chancellor of the Exchequer on the 27th of May 1993. He was replaced by Ken Clarke. By 1996 Ken Clarke's economic plan was a complete success with the deficit falling. Much as I do not like the man, Kenneth Clarke recovered the economy. Things were going well some time before Gordon Brown inherited his spending plans, which Gordon Brown stuck to until the 2001 General Election. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 21, 2023 19:04:08 GMT
Well as someone who just about lived through the ERM disaster in 1992 and the enormous interest rates that followed, I have to disagree. ?? - by 1993 base rates were down to the 5% range and stayed around there all the way up to the financial crash in 2008.. It was dropping out of the ERM that allowed rates to fall. Sorry mistake, I meant to put 1990 and over thought it. But new labour stabilised interest rates for 11 years and amazingly (Who'd have thought it) the BofE did not need to raise interest rates after the 2008 crash. For me the 11 years of stability were critical to the growth of my company and I am very grateful to new Labour for them.  |
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