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Post by happyjack on Jan 7, 2023 13:32:44 GMT
As I quite openly admitted before, I have no idea what quote tags are.
However, if you go back to my post above you will see where I have added to it to explain where you are factually wrong.
in fact, thinking about it, it would have been more appropriate for you to have use the “ it” rather than “they” so I guess your error could just be one of employing poor grammar rather than displaying factual inaccuracy. However, if that had been the case, it is difficult to see why you would have responded to Vinny as you did
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Post by thomas on Jan 7, 2023 13:37:23 GMT
As I said quite openly admitted before, I have no idea what quote tags are. However, if you go back to my post above you will see where I have added to it to explain where you are factually wrong. Its not difficult. If you cant use the very basic instruments of a forum , ask a mod to help.
Once again , please highlight in some way or the other that you are able to , where i am factully wrong and prove why?
Over to you.
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Post by happyjack on Jan 7, 2023 13:50:40 GMT
I am able to communicate on here perfectly adequately without doing as you suggest, but thank you for your kind suggestion.
If you return to my last 2 posts above, you will see that I have already shown why you are factually wrong (unless I am mistaken and you are not Scottish or from some other part of the UK, of course - but again it would have been bizarre and twisted of you to have responded to Vinny as you did if that was the case) and you have recently said that you have a passport that describes you as a UK(sic) citizen, so that is clearly not the case.
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Post by thomas on Jan 7, 2023 13:54:32 GMT
I am able to communicate on here perfectly adequately without doing as you suggest, but thank you for your kind suggestion. Glad to hear it.
i have done so and perhaps your communication isnt as good as you think , but i cant see where i am factually wrong.
I even pointed out my acknowledgement i am british by geography , as i am also european for example. I recognise i am a uk citizen (fill in terminology as you will ) and i am a scottish national as defined on my birth and marriage certificates.
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Post by thomas on Jan 7, 2023 14:01:24 GMT
I am able to communicate on here perfectly adequately without doing as you suggest, but thank you for your kind suggestion. If you return to my last 2 posts above, you will see that I have already shown why you are factually wrong (unless I am mistaken and you are not Scottish or from some other part of the UK, of course - but again it would have been bizarre and twisted of you to have responded to Vinny as you did if that was the case) and you have recently said that you have a passport that describes you as a UK(sic) citizen, so that is clearly not the case. while we await you brushing up on your forum communication skills , and your latest attempt at a rejoinder , on what piece of paper issued by what civil servant in what country takes precedence in your battle with nationality , i point out once again that nationality is a mindset forged in the history of a country and imparted to each and everyone of us by our upbringing and family views.
No piece of paper in the world can changes that....
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Post by happyjack on Jan 7, 2023 17:19:12 GMT
I don’t intend to brush up on my communication skills. They are at least the match of yours, from what I have seen so far.
If you mean brushing up on my ability to better utilise the messaging options on this forum, I might develop those a little over time but I feel no need to actively seek to do so.
I am not sure when you talk about what piece of paper issued by what civil servant takes precedence etc but if you are referring to your passport then you already know the answer to that; it just sticks in your craw to accept it. You don’t have to be a supporter of Scotland’s place in the UK to acknowledge the facts. It just makes you look sad when you can’t even do that.
You are both right and wrong about nationality. If you are Scottish then you legal nationality is British. You are stuck with that like it or not.
That said, while Scotland is not a country, there is no doubt that there is a Scottish nation (and an English nation too, of course). It is pretty remarkable, in my view, just how strong that sense of nationality is within many of the English and Scottish peoples even 316 years after respective kingdoms of England and Scotland were dissolved. Many of us feel much more Scottish or English than we do British. I am one of those people btw so I understand the feeling. However, to allow your emotions to prevent you from accepting and acknowledging the fact that your legal nationality is British is OTT and diminishes your credibility.
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Post by thomas on Jan 7, 2023 17:55:38 GMT
I am not sure when you talk about what piece of paper issued by what civil servant takes precedence etc but if you are referring to your passport then you already know the answer to that; it just sticks in your craw to accept it. You don’t have to be a supporter of Scotland’s place in the UK to acknowledge the facts. It just makes you look sad when you can’t even do that. You are both right and wrong about nationality. If you are Scottish then you legal nationality is British. You are stuck with that like it or not. That said, while Scotland is not a country, there is no doubt that there is a Scottish nation (and an English nation too, of course). It is pretty remarkable, in my view, just how strong that sense of nationality is within many of the English and Scottish peoples even 316 years after respective kingdoms of England and Scotland were dissolved. Many of us feel much more Scottish or English than we do British. I am one of those people btw so I understand the feeling. However, to allow your emotions to prevent you from accepting and acknowledging the fact that your legal nationality is British is OTT and diminishes your credibility. Sticks in my craw to accept what?
The current uk passport i have calls me a uk and EU citizen (which i accept is now ended ) but isnt something that only people living in the uk in these islands can obtain , but also people for example in gibraltar can . Its not a marker for nationality( ie in the sense a nation issues its citizens a passport) when you consider non british past and present have also been issued with one.
During the british empire , anyone born within the empire was entitled to claim a british passport. Its a travel document issued to those directly or indirectly under london rule past and present.
I accept what it says though.
I also point out i have two other document that say im scottish. On my marriage certificate ,it literally says next to the box asking "country of birth" -------Scotland in big black type.
How can my country of birth be scotland if scotland isnt a country as you claim ?
Are you saying my marriage certificate issued in Paisley is wrong?
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Post by thomas on Jan 7, 2023 18:00:56 GMT
Many of us feel much more Scottish or English than we do British. . When the country of scotland did the last census ( the data of the new one will be revealed this year) heres what it said on scottish national identity.
82.7% of people said they had some Scottish national identity.
That's 4.4 million people.
Scottish identity only
62.4% of Scotland's population said they were ‘Scottish only’.
while a minority said they were british...
8.4% of the population said they had ‘British identity only’.
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Post by happyjack on Jan 7, 2023 21:08:56 GMT
Yep, that doesn’t surprise me. I would definitely have been part of the 82.7% and possibly part of the 62.4%. I have floated between these 2 categories over the years, usually depending upon which party is in power at Westminster.
It will be interesting to see the results of the latest one. I think that there will have been competing dynamics at play. 11 years of terrible Tory government, Brexit, and Johnson as PM driving more people to feel less British -V- Sturgeon, her undemocratic response to the 2014 referendum and the ongoing threat of independence hanging over us driving more people to value their Britishness more.
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Post by research0it on Jan 7, 2023 22:31:21 GMT
Yep, that doesn’t surprise me. I would definitely have been part of the 82.7% and possibly part of the 62.4%. I have floated between these 2 categories over the years, usually depending upon which party is in power at Westminster. It will be interesting to see the results of the latest one. I think that there will have been competing dynamics at play. 11 years of terrible Tory government, Brexit, and Johnson as PM driving more people to feel less British -V- Sturgeon, her undemocratic response to the 2014 referendum and the ongoing threat of independence hanging over us driving more people to value their Britishness more. Hi happyjack What does all that mean in terms of where we are or should be? Why am I driven so mad by all these meaningless statements? |
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Post by happyjack on Jan 8, 2023 2:54:17 GMT
It is an indicator that the Scottish people are going through a turbulent time due to the political machinations that have been subjected to over a decade or more.
I don’t know why you are driven mad by these meaningless statements but, if you really don’t like them, this might not be the forum for you.
Now let me ask you a question if I may. For someone who is on the fence about independence, why are you addressing all of your questions of this nature to those who are not in favour of independence? There are far more posts and far more meaningless statements on here from Indy supporters, after all. Is it really just a coincidence that they all seem to have fallen to those on this side of the Indy fence - or are you maybe not quite as much on that fence as you think you are?
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Post by research0it on Jan 8, 2023 4:07:16 GMT
It is an indicator that the Scottish people are going through a turbulent time due to the political machinations that have been subjected to over a decade or more. I don’t know why you are driven mad by these meaningless statements but, if you really don’t like them, this might not be the forum for you. Now let me ask you a question if I may. For someone who is on the fence about independence, why are you addressing all of your questions of this nature to those who are not in favour of independence? There are far more posts and far more meaningless statements on here from Indy supporters, after all. Is it really just a coincidence that they all seem to have fallen to those on this side of the Indy fence - or are you maybe not quite as much on that fence as you think you are? Hi happyjack No I'm on the fence now and voted no in 2014. I suppose the answer to your question is that I've noticed a switch in the last 40 years or so. The majority of nuts seem to have switched from the independence supporting side to the union supporting side. Nor to say that some are still on the other side. That said, is it not that your perception is wrong? I have specifically directed some questions to BOTH sides. Maybe you only notice those towards your own side? I also take your question as completely symptomatic of politics these days. One is not allowed to sit back and be persuaded. One had to be on one side or the other. Or both sides view you suspiciously. |
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Post by happyjack on Jan 8, 2023 4:53:26 GMT
Yes, even as I typed my question to you, I did question whether this was more perception on my part, given as I don’t read all of the posts on this site, particularly those where the conversation seems to be dominated by the hard core Indy team.
I don’t know if my question was symptomatic of the wider environment but it is definitely symptomatic of this place.
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Post by thomas on Jan 8, 2023 9:49:05 GMT
It is an indicator that the Scottish people are going through a turbulent time due to the political machinations that have been subjected to over a decade or more. Come again? Are you insinuating the majority of scotland have all of a sudden become more scottish than british in terms of national identity due to tory machinations and snp brainwashing?
I have books on this subjects , including works by tam devine or michael lynch , that show over the course of the union since 1707 , quite clearly the majority held national identity of scots has been scottish not british , with the anomaly of the baby boomer generation being slightly more british , before levels began dropping down back to scots national identity .
Scottish independence , scottish national identity , and political and military turbulence is the norm in this union. Its not something that merely arrived in 2011.
From 1707 , we had armed uprisings and rebellion to 1820 , and the history of the snp and home rule movements can be found throughout most decades of the twentieth century.
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Post by jaydee on Jan 8, 2023 20:49:04 GMT
It is an indicator that the Scottish people are going through a turbulent time due to the political machinations that have been subjected to over a decade or more. Come again? Are you insinuating the majority of scotland have all of a sudden become more scottish than british in terms of national identity due to tory machinations and snp brainwashing?
I have books on this subjects , including works by tam devine or michael lynch , that show over the course of the union since 1707 , quite clearly the majority held national identity of scots has been scottish not british , with the anomaly of the baby boomer generation being slightly more british , before levels began dropping down back to scots national identity .
Scottish independence , scottish national identity , and political and military turbulence is the norm in this union. Its not something that merely arrived in 2011.
From 1707 , we had armed uprisings and rebellion to 1820 , and the history of the snp and home rule movements can be found throughout most decades of the twentieth century.
He is not even making a good job of making a clown of himself. I wonder if this how he arrived at that conclusion with his Risk assessment policy |
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