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Post by thomas on Jan 2, 2023 15:02:16 GMT
How embaressing on two counts at least.
Not only dictating to england about a sovereign territory of the uk , but your tacit admission you need washington to fight your battles over nuclear subs for you.
I think you overestimate your military and political importance to washington personally. It was only the other week i was watching former american military man scott ritter ( the latest in a long line) on galloways show mocking the current uk armed forces and how they couldnt fill "a soccer stadium" in Qatar.
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Post by research0it on Jan 2, 2023 16:49:46 GMT
Jaydee, in the event of independence a junior duty officer in the Pentagon will phone the FM and inform him/her that the weapons will remain where they are. Now, you tell us incessantly in great detail just what a powerhouse Scotland is, how much better, richer and how the inhabitants are so much more cleverer than the English, can you advise why, in this economic powerhouse, the people are so poor that they are unable to feed themselves. Nicola Sturgeon shamed as Scottish children more reliant on food banks than five years ago Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP have been warned she must act now after damning new figures showed the number of food parcels distributed by poverty charities to children in Scotland has skyrocketed since 2017. Food poverty organisation Trussell Trust has released mid-year statistics that reveal the total number of food parcels handed out over the last five years has surged 65 percent, while food distributed to children has jumped by 77 percent. www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1715680/nicola-sturgeon-snp-government-children-food-banks-parcels-scottish-law Hi Om15 I don't think he is claiming Scots are better than the English. I certainly wouldn't. The uk economic disease is a British creation and Scots have contributed to it. But scotland is underdeveloped. A region with all those resources doesn't have enough of a tax base to pay for its public services tells its own tale. On poverty, there really isn't that much difference across the UK and that has far more to do with austerity and vicious right wing policies than anything any regional government has done. |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 2, 2023 17:04:47 GMT
It's contingent on the way they've already voted (and rejected what you want). Democracy is a never endum vinny. When you say once in a generation, then lose and ask for a 2nd bite of the cherry, that's not democracy. Scotland already rejected your proposals. Wait for the next generation to vote. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 2, 2023 17:08:30 GMT
Democracy is a never endum vinny. When you say once in a generation, then lose and ask for a 2nd bite of the cherry, that's not democracy. Scotland already rejected your proposals. Wait for the next generation to vote. A political generation has passed vinny. Denying democracy is never a good look , and always ends one way.
Further your own so called democracy has a golden rule that no person or parliament can bind a future parliament , so why is this right for you but wrong for us?
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Post by research0it on Jan 2, 2023 17:09:25 GMT
Democracy is a never endum vinny. When you say once in a generation, then lose and ask for a 2nd bite of the cherry, that's not democracy. Scotland already rejected your proposals. Wait for the next generation to vote. Hi vinny The right time apart, the circumstances and how anything so major as a constitutional change should happen is up to the people living in the country. I told you its a debate about the constitution and Scotland, not about a referendum. Which is irrelevant. You seem obsessed about a referendum rather than the actual issue |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 2, 2023 17:17:03 GMT
When you say once in a generation, then lose and ask for a 2nd bite of the cherry, that's not democracy. Scotland already rejected your proposals. Wait for the next generation to vote. A political generation has passed vinny. Denying democracy is never a good look , and always ends one way.
Further your own so called democracy has a golden rule that no person or parliament can bind a future parliament , so why is this right for you but wrong for us?
No, a generation is 20 years. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 2, 2023 17:18:27 GMT
A political generation has passed vinny. Denying democracy is never a good look , and always ends one way.
Further your own so called democracy has a golden rule that no person or parliament can bind a future parliament , so why is this right for you but wrong for us?
No, a generation is 20 years. you are going around in circles repeating yourself incessantly . The uk government by international treaty defines a political generation as 7 years. I linked you to it earlier up the thread. |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 2, 2023 17:21:54 GMT
You're moving the goalposts.
It was a "once in a generation" referendum not a "once in a political generation" referendum.
No dice Thomas.
You lost.
Move on.
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Post by thomas on Jan 2, 2023 17:22:09 GMT
When you say once in a generation, then lose and ask for a 2nd bite of the cherry, that's not democracy. Scotland already rejected your proposals. Wait for the next generation to vote. Hi vinny The right time apart, the circumstances and how anything so major as a constitutional change should happen is up to the people living in the country. I told you its a debate about the constitution and Scotland, not about a referendum. Which is irrelevant. You seem obsessed about a referendum rather than the actual issue it becomes pointless debating vinny , because rather than raise pertinent political points , increasingly im trading posts with someone who appears to be screaming and shouting while stamping his feet.
While i understand certain english or british folk are emotionally attached to the uk , the fact remains vinnys arguments so far are all over the place and extremely contradictory.
I already raised the point that 62 countires left london rule ,the majortiy without a referendum , and vinnys reply is to ignore my point and scream no referendum , or you wont have anther vote as though some obscure guy on an interwebby forum who doesnt have a vote has settled the constitutional future of scotland by pouting.
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Post by jaydee on Jan 2, 2023 17:45:28 GMT
Jaydee, in the event of independence a junior duty officer in the Pentagon will phone the FM and inform him/her that the weapons will remain where they are. Now, you tell us incessantly in great detail just what a powerhouse Scotland is, how much better, richer and how the inhabitants are so much more cleverer than the English, can you advise why, in this economic powerhouse, the people are so poor that they are unable to feed themselves. Nicola Sturgeon shamed as Scottish children more reliant on food banks than five years ago Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP have been warned she must act now after damning new figures showed the number of food parcels distributed by poverty charities to children in Scotland has skyrocketed since 2017. Food poverty organisation Trussell Trust has released mid-year statistics that reveal the total number of food parcels handed out over the last five years has surged 65 percent, while food distributed to children has jumped by 77 percent. www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1715680/nicola-sturgeon-snp-government-children-food-banks-parcels-scottish-law Tel me something.. As once more you get your info from your nut jobs serving time in jail. To save going over the next idiotic rant you are about to spew I have combined the copy and paste. Have you worked out Faslaner yet. And there are more food banks in England than MacDonald's. As English pensioner are now forced to sit on buses to keep warm, Now in terms of child poverty. As once more you are 100% wrong. In this case Scottish Labour who are in bed with the Tory's. Suddenly the lefties are your heros. After your rants what would Starmer do. FFS as my dear departed daddy used to say. I wonder how milk gets into coconuts With that absolute anti SNP rant defining many retained matters such as pension. Which is the worst in the developed world. Scotland gives its elderly free health care so they do not have to sell there family pile. Plus free dental and bus travel. What does bankrupt England offer. ...There were 3.9 million children living in poverty in England in 2020-21. That's 27 per cent of children, or eight in a classroom of 30. In Scotland. Funded early learning and childcare is free to parents, but funded by the Scottish Government. You can get up to 1,140 hours of funded early learning and childcare a year (around 30 hours a week in term time) if your child is 3 or 4 years old. Some 2 year olds are also eligible. On top of the National UK payment. Scottish Child Payment is awarded if successful towards the costs of supporting family in poverty. . It's a weekly payment of £25 that you can get for every child who's under 16 years of age. The payment every 4 weeks. It does not cost the English tax payer one penny And wow there are 3.9 million kids in poverty in England as OM15 compares it with 40,000. As Marcus Rashford forced Bojoke to feed them. By definition costing the Scottish tax payer to feed bankrupt England's hungry kids. What does bankrupt England giveIn terms of education . The Scots are the most educated people in Europe. Some 52% of Scots have University qualifications. Thats 8% higher than England. Not to mention. Scotland has four University's in the top 100 in the world. That's more per head than any other country in the world. Not to mention University placement is free. Saving some £14,000 a year. What does bankrupt England offer. Despite the shite being spewed on how the SNP destroyed the education system. The Scottish NHS. Healthcare spending in Scotland is £2,368 per person, while in England it is £2,182. Scotland has 76 GPs per 100,000 people, compared to England with 60 per 100,000 .
The number of patients spending over 12 hours in A&E was 0.2 per cent in Scotland, 2 per cent in England. Scottish nurses are the highest paid in the UK. NHS waiting times. 945,072 people waited more than 12 hours in England A&E departments in 2021-22. That’s 48 times larger than the figure for Scotland 19,667. Scottish nurses average pay is £36,631 in England £33,384. In answer to your post. I as a Scottish tax payer can no longer afford to keep subsidy junkies like you because you cannot live within your means. .Now if that is Scotland in a mess. Does not bode well for you. Does it. None of that costs the English tax payer one penny. And since it took power.The Scottish government has underspent every year. The wankers in Westminster have destroyed the economy. That should cover your circular crap. Question answered before you post the same drivel for the 90th time. Ah copy and paste is magnificent. And I am still waiting on you to correct one of my posts. Any one will do. This one included. Having a problem. In terms of stupid Englishmen on all the forums. You hold the record of hate and stupidity. I am sure you are now trolling the internet. Looking for more absolute stupid drivel to post. Which will end up once more being shot down in flames With problems in bankrupt England turning out being 10 to 90 per cent worse than Scotland. On every bit of garbage you post. . |
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Post by research0it on Jan 2, 2023 18:05:04 GMT
You're moving the goalposts. It was a "once in a generation" referendum not a "once in a political generation" referendum. No dice Thomas. You lost. Move on. Hi vinny So you'd be quite happy if scotland left the uk, as long as it was done without a referendum? It's a debate about the constitution, not about referendums, which should be used very sparingly anyway. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 2, 2023 18:29:19 GMT
You're moving the goalposts. It was a "once in a generation" referendum not a "once in a political generation" referendum. No dice Thomas. You lost. Move on. Hi vinny So you'd be quite happy if scotland left the uk, as long as it was done without a referendum? It's a debate about the constitution, not about referendums, which should be used very sparingly anyway. i disagree, im a democrat.
If a party stands at each election on a manifesto to hold a referendum on a certain topic , and wins that election to hold the referendum , i see nothing wrong with holding continuel referendums every 5 years if thats what people vote for.
As long as the referendum result is implemented each time , then i see no problem.
There is no uk consitution in reality. Scottish consitutional law and reality is differnt from englands , in that in scotland , we have the concept of the people being sovereign versus england westmisnter is sovereign . If you do go down the westminster consitutional route , it was long held a majority of scottish politicians in westmisnter voting for independence was enough to take scotland out the uk.
Thatcher famously said this many times , scotland didnt need a referndum , only to elect a majority of scottish national mps into scottish seats and westmisnter would recognise the result. Back in the days when even thatcher recognised democracy.
I dont agree referendums should be used sparingly. That to me is a country that fears democracy , and such a country cannot last. Nothing greater in the world than the common man saying how his country should be governed or what the majority view is on any topic.
The "we know best" without the little mans view is never a good look....
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Post by jaydee on Jan 2, 2023 18:30:42 GMT
Quite simple for me England would probably build three sites capable of hosting nuclear submarines to keep the MOD happy. Well it sounds good. It will however be against the NPT. But unfortunately as I state it is cost prohibitive to move. Apart from that there is not a suitable place to put them in England. On top of the NIMBY clans gathering. Like fracking. The Westminster wankers could ask the French to store them. But I do not think the French and the English see eye to eye. Apart from that it would make it even less independent. On a indy Scotland. Trident is history. That would suit a lot of the defence chiefs who have long described it as a red herring. It is a political choice. Not a military one. The stick on hairy chest keeps the UK at the top table of the UN. Any half baked banana republic could have battle field nuclear weapons. In terms of continues at sea. That will be in the past. The UK is now even incapable of policing the GIUK gap. As Russian subs slip in and out of the North atlantic undetected. The Americans getting mighty pissed of in the process. dornsife.usc.edu/news/stories/3765/what-are-tactical-nuclear-weapons/ |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 2, 2023 18:53:20 GMT
The people are sovereign, they have already spoken and separatists aren't even getting close to the 1.6m you got in the 2014 referendum.
You need over 2m votes, if that happens it's a game changer.
But as long as you don't, it ain't.
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Post by research0it on Jan 2, 2023 20:32:04 GMT
The people are sovereign, they have already spoken and separatists aren't even getting close to the 1.6m you got in the 2014 referendum. You need over 2m votes, if that happens it's a game changer. But as long as you don't, it ain't. Hi vinny That's exactly it. One side or the other has to obtain the settled will of the people. Nothing else will do. The trouble with your focus on referendums and how often they should happen, is one gets drawn into debates about irrelevant matters. Like how long is a generation, or even what was really meant by certain statements. All irrelevant. The union and independence supporting sides have to win by ensuring the settled will of the people is on one side. I'm guessing slightly, but I'd say you do not want Scotland to leave the UK. Right? So, win. Present your arguments. I've been in conversation with folk that trot out the generation statement. Pointless. If the settled will of the people alights on independence, some folk seem to think that they could then play that "generation" quote as some kind of trump card. It won't work like that. If you want scotland to stay in the UK, then work for it. |
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