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Post by Vinny on Oct 31, 2024 10:07:06 GMT
Biofuels were once seen as the future, what happened?
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 31, 2024 12:03:02 GMT
Biofuels were once seen as the future, what happened? CATL and BYD happened. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 31, 2024 12:08:25 GMT
No, Volkswagen's emissions scandal happened.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 31, 2024 14:34:34 GMT
No, Volkswagen's emissions scandal happened. I don't suppose it helped. The main issue is economic though. I heard you have to build half a million EVs before you can turn a profit. I've also heard from euro car makers confirming the electric market is far greater upfront investment than ICE. This means if you are going to go for a technology you had better pick the right one or you will go bust. To start with we had a few. There were batteries, even flow batteries and solid state as well as a load of different combinations of elements. There were hybrids using generators. There were even gas powered turbines and fuel cells as well as adapting an ICE for hydrogen. In addition you have your biofuel option to go green as well, since carbon emissions are all the environmentalists care about. It just got pushed to the wayside as the EVs were proved to solve all the problems at the cheapest price. China bet everything on this technology and put the R and D into it. Other tech got R and D investment but it was not proving all that fruitful, and a lot was wasted on fuel cells which everyone reckoned 20 years ago was the lightly winner. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 31, 2024 14:38:41 GMT
The electric car market is a niche market, always has been, always will be.
Power to weight ratio and range just isn't good enough.
Fuel cell technology is better, even the old petrol engine is better.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 31, 2024 18:09:37 GMT
The electric car market is a niche market, always has been, always will be. Power to weight ratio and range just isn't good enough. Fuel cell technology is better, even the old petrol engine is better. In China there is some mention of 50%. They have all the infrastructure including the world's fastest chargers, plus they are seriously cheap over there. You can buy a small 4 seater EV for a grand. It's the case that you either go big or you forget it. If you need loads of chargers and the chargers don't exist, then no one will want an electric car, so no point in loads of chargers. Ironically the solution was large government subsidy. China now gets harassment from the US for its EV subsidy, yet this is a business problem that does not work well with the free market, as in it is like the network problem, e.g. trains are a classic. The more lines you have the more people will want to go by train.
So as I was saying, it was a government planned thing. They did the whole lot. They built the solar cell industry to supply the cheap leccy, and they developed the batteries for the cars and paid a ton of money building hundreds of universities to do this research. They are 21 times our size so they had the economy of scale to pull it off. The result is they are making a load of money supplying the world with the technology now. I know you don't like commie economics, but one has to admit this central planning is what was needed. They did central planning in the soviet union, but the bureaucracy was as stupid as it is in this country so it screwed up. For some reason China's bureaucracy is really well designed and has worked.Now they are operating in the region of profitability and getting a strong payback on the investments. They are crushing German firms like VW and BMW etc. The whole of the EU car production is fucked. Remainers used it as a major reason for us to rejoin the EU. The truth is if we ever did there would not be a car industry left!
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Post by Vinny on Oct 31, 2024 18:17:32 GMT
We're in Britain made, forget China and the soon to be dead EV market and look at the alternatives, which are better.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 31, 2024 20:37:28 GMT
We're in Britain made, forget China and the soon to be dead EV market and look at the alternatives, which are better. We can still do this stuff. Britain found a way to increase EV battery capacity by 20% with magnesium a while back. 20% of every EV battery in the world is worth a lot of money. Another corker was using graphene in batteries. This enables them to be charged super fast, so another Brit invention.
What we have got to do is work with China where we supply some good R & D and China agrees to pay us a fair rate for it, which I think they will, as they are businessmen. Sell it to the US and we often get ripped off. One thing I've even heard it say in China is the Chinese find it difficult to do the real blue sky research. They are excellent at commercialising stuff and running good factories, but the kind of thinking which yields groundbreaking inventions seems to be our forte. We often invent it then lose it to someone else. Rather we got to invent it and commercialise it and split the cash fairly. It can be done.Like we Brits can do well being a small part of a big industry. We do not need the EU. We can work with th Aussies as well. The Aussies are into this green tech and they are now working with the Chinese, so lets make some peace and make some money, and stop dicking about with politics.
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Post by Vinny on Oct 31, 2024 20:40:58 GMT
EVs were the tech of the future in 1904. They're a technological dead end. Liquid fuel beats batteries every time.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 31, 2024 21:18:54 GMT
EVs were the tech of the future in 1904. They're a technological dead end. Liquid fuel beats batteries every time. I honestly don't see that. The next few years will demonstrate if it works out. I understand the new batteries will be solid state and they end the debate completely regarding range, safety and also lifetime. The tech is solving all the quibbles people have been having. I'll tell you what the problem was. Britain invented lithium batteries a great long time ago but was so slow to develop them that it needed some more enthusiastic people to do it for us. We used those shitty NiCads between the 70s and late 90s. China has given us a much needed kick up the arse. One should not start a fight over it. Just lets get back to being an inventing and producing nation once again. We will gain some self respect when the best inventions flow once again from our shores. We won't gain resspect by being a bad loser. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 31, 2024 21:32:43 GMT
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 31, 2024 22:15:45 GMT
You can do wireless charging now. That might solve the bus in continual use problem. It can charge at the stops. Also never draw conclusions on a technology until you have properly tested it. These things are impossible to predict theoretically or by guesswork. Science always goes on empirical evidence. Preliminary tests look good. That's all i know. There are always bugs and we do not know until we are there. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 31, 2024 22:19:39 GMT
What use is wireless charging, to a 1000 tonne cargo ship?
What use is wireless charging, to an Airbus?
What use is wireless charging to a lorry?
You promote a fantasy, Baron.
Electric vehicles simply are not practical enough for long distance travel, or heavy vehicles.
Hydrocarbons are.
Biofuels, synthetic fuels, both are better options than your fixation with batteries.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 31, 2024 22:36:56 GMT
He is only fixated with batteries because China makes most of them - if China led the world in fuel cell technology they would be great and batteries crap.
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Post by Vinny on Oct 31, 2024 22:37:38 GMT
He is only fixated with batteries because China makes most of them - if China led the world in fuel cell technology they would be great and batteries crap. Exactly. And god knows why he is fixated with promoting China, it's a human rights abused dump! |
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