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Post by sandypine on Jan 26, 2023 20:27:50 GMT
No, I am saying because we cannot, and have not, accurately predicted the effects of CO2 on the climate then we should not class it as an emergency. That does not translate to sitting on our hands, it translates to let us wean ourselves off fossil fuels in a sensible and relatively cost and angst free way. I have not said that CO2 warming has been disproved. I have said the relationship between warming and CO2 levels is at best uncertain. I have also said that the measure of warming, that is comparing current to past temperatures has many questions as regards its accuracy. Why wean ourselves off fossil fuels? Largely because they are finite, plus the fact that some believe it causes warming etc. So I am not advocating doing nothing, I am advocating a sensible approach free from 'we are all going to die' type knee jerk reactions. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 26, 2023 20:31:14 GMT
Why wean ourselves off fossil fuels? Largely because they are finite, plus the fact that some believe it causes warming etc. So I am not advocating doing nothing, I am advocating a sensible approach free from 'we are all going to die' type knee jerk reactions. There are loads left and we discover more every year. Who cares what some believe, you know that Co2 has no measurable effect on the earths temperature. So why do anything. |
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Post by sandypine on Jan 26, 2023 21:00:06 GMT
Largely because they are finite, plus the fact that some believe it causes warming etc. So I am not advocating doing nothing, I am advocating a sensible approach free from 'we are all going to die' type knee jerk reactions. There are loads left and we discover more every year. Who cares what some believe, you know that Co2 has no measurable effect on the earths temperature. So why do anything. They are still finite by the very nature of the planet. I have not said that CO2 has no measurable effect, it has an unknown effect that some believe is an emergency, I disagree, it is not an emergency and the framing of it as an emergency has more to do with politics than science. That does not mean we should do nothing at all, it just means we can take a sensible and pragmatic approach. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2023 21:29:01 GMT
What would be the natural CO2 atmospheric content without human input? The Sahara would be a better place to live because it's climate change will be caused by Earth axis change and not CO2. The natural amount of Co2 would be within the bounds of the last 800,000 years. (between 200 and 280 ppm) That is the amount under which almost all life currently on earth has evolved. ( Current level is around 440ppm. ) About 420 ppm Zany. I've told you a million and one times not to exaggerate. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 26, 2023 21:38:05 GMT
There are loads left and we discover more every year. Who cares what some believe, you know that Co2 has no measurable effect on the earths temperature. So why do anything. They are still finite by the very nature of the planet. I have not said that CO2 has no measurable effect, it has an unknown effect that some believe is an emergency, I disagree, it is not an emergency and the framing of it as an emergency has more to do with politics than science. That does not mean we should do nothing at all, it just means we can take a sensible and pragmatic approach. Well certainly no need to do anything in our life times, fossil fuels will outlast us. And we don't know the effect, it could be positive. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 26, 2023 21:41:21 GMT
The natural amount of Co2 would be within the bounds of the last 800,000 years. (between 200 and 280 ppm) That is the amount under which almost all life currently on earth has evolved. ( Current level is around 440ppm. ) About 420 ppm Zany. I've told you a million and one times not to exaggerate. 280 to 420 is scary enough. And its 440 in my village   |
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Post by sandypine on Jan 26, 2023 21:55:30 GMT
They are still finite by the very nature of the planet. I have not said that CO2 has no measurable effect, it has an unknown effect that some believe is an emergency, I disagree, it is not an emergency and the framing of it as an emergency has more to do with politics than science. That does not mean we should do nothing at all, it just means we can take a sensible and pragmatic approach. Well certainly no need to do anything in our life times, fossil fuels will outlast us. And we don't know the effect, it could be positive. Of course they will outlast us but then is that not the point that we are always trying to improve things for our future generations. That does not include sending them into penury and making their lives colder, darker, meaner and narrower. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2023 22:04:33 GMT
About 420 ppm Zany. I've told you a million and one times not to exaggerate. 280 to 420 is scary enough. And its 440 in my village Funnily enough, I don't find it scary at all, but I do find the prospects of power cuts because of reactionary net zero policies quite dangerous and alarming. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 26, 2023 22:05:21 GMT
Well certainly no need to do anything in our life times, fossil fuels will outlast us. And we don't know the effect, it could be positive. Of course they will outlast us but then is that not the point that we are always trying to improve things for our future generations. That does not include sending them into penury and making their lives colder, darker, meaner and narrower. So no need for us to bother, there's plenty left for our children as we haven't even started on fracking yet. And thank goodness for the Chinese, our government are trying to freeze our kids, but they will make the planet lovely and warm . Cuddly. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 26, 2023 22:07:55 GMT
280 to 420 is scary enough. And its 440 in my village Funnily enough, I don't find it scary at all, but I do find the prospects of power cuts because of reactionary net zero policies quite dangerous and alarming. Oh goodness yes, we can't have no power between 5 and 6 pm, we'd all die of exposure. I read that a house can fall from 18c to absolute zero in less than an hour. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2023 22:15:05 GMT
Funnily enough, I don't find it scary at all, but I do find the prospects of power cuts because of reactionary net zero policies quite dangerous and alarming. Oh goodness yes, we can't have no power between 5 and 6 pm, we'd all die of exposure. I read that a house can fall from 18c to absolute zero in less than an hour. Your sarcasm and attempted trivialising the problem are noted. This is the email I got 2 days ago: Dear Priority Services Register customer
In recent months there has been speculation in the newspapers and on television about the prospect of “power sharing” or planned power cuts this winter in the unlikely scenario of a national energy shortage this winter. We are writing to all the customers on our Priority Services Register to help you prepare for winter.
While this winter is expected to be challenging, there is no guarantee emergency measures will be necessary. National Grid ESO’s view remains that there will be adequate electricity supplies through the winter. Power sharing would only be used as a very last resort after all other options have been exhausted.
Power cuts might be uncommon, but they can happen all-year-round so it’s important you are prepared and know what to do.
Emergency power cuts are unlikely to happen, but if they do it is important you know:
You will have no power for at least three hours at a time, once or twice a day.
Priority Services Register customers will lose power in an emergency. Being on the Priority Services Register does not offer you any protection from the national power cuts.
Your gas boiler, heat pump, broadband and home phone will not work during the power cut.
Due to the national scale of the power cuts, UK Power Networks cannot supply generators/backup power to customers for these emergencies. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 27, 2023 6:59:18 GMT
Oh goodness yes, we can't have no power between 5 and 6 pm, we'd all die of exposure. I read that a house can fall from 18c to absolute zero in less than an hour. Your sarcasm and attempted trivialising the problem are noted. This is the email I got 2 days ago: Dear Priority Services Register customer
In recent months there has been speculation in the newspapers and on television about the prospect of “power sharing” or planned power cuts this winter in the unlikely scenario of a national energy shortage this winter. We are writing to all the customers on our Priority Services Register to help you prepare for winter.
While this winter is expected to be challenging, there is no guarantee emergency measures will be necessary. National Grid ESO’s view remains that there will be adequate electricity supplies through the winter. Power sharing would only be used as a very last resort after all other options have been exhausted.
Power cuts might be uncommon, but they can happen all-year-round so it’s important you are prepared and know what to do.
Emergency power cuts are unlikely to happen, but if they do it is important you know:
You will have no power for at least three hours at a time, once or twice a day.
Priority Services Register customers will lose power in an emergency. Being on the Priority Services Register does not offer you any protection from the national power cuts.
Your gas boiler, heat pump, broadband and home phone will not work during the power cut.
Due to the national scale of the power cuts, UK Power Networks cannot supply generators/backup power to customers for these emergencies.I was sarcastic because you were claiming the switch to renewables would result in long periods without power. When we both know that at most it would be you being encouraged to spread your power usage more evenly. The email you include here is due to the shortage of GAS because of a war in a foreign country. It has nothing to do with renewable energy which is not fully in place yet. I was also sarcastic because you trivialised a 150% increase in atmospheric Co2 and dodged making a reasoned response. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jan 27, 2023 8:20:58 GMT
You are saying that because we cannot accurately predict the effects of Co2 warming we should do anything / everything. To my mind the piece you seem to missing, and even avoiding, is that your remedy has costs My opinion is that we know atmospheric Co2 is warming the planet That's a theory - we do not know it's true. Like I've said several times it's never been experimentally demonstrated on Earth except in specific areas with no plant life - which is significant because plants use CO2 to produce cooling. And nobody has ever measured the amount of cooling caused by plants - which is a significant omission. " The influence of atmospheric CO2 on the balance between incoming energy from the Sun and outgoing heat from the Earth (also called the planet’s energy balance) is well established. But this effect has not been experimentally confirmed outside the laboratory until now". You'll notice they chose to do it in areas with little or no plant life. link
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Post by sandypine on Jan 27, 2023 14:11:49 GMT
They are still finite by the very nature of the planet. I have not said that CO2 has no measurable effect, it has an unknown effect that some believe is an emergency, I disagree, it is not an emergency and the framing of it as an emergency has more to do with politics than science. That does not mean we should do nothing at all, it just means we can take a sensible and pragmatic approach. Well certainly no need to do anything in our life times, fossil fuels will outlast us. And we don't know the effect, it could be positive. It could be positive. You keep asking me why and then keep ignoring the answers I give and claim I have said something else. Based on your evidence as regards global warming it is happening at about 0.3C per decade. That gives us plenty of time to adopt a considered approach for the UK where we can be leaders and not sufferers all at the same time. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 27, 2023 18:47:07 GMT
My opinion is that we know atmospheric Co2 is warming the planet That's a theory - we do not know it's true. Like I've said several times it's never been experimentally demonstrated on Earth except in specific areas with no plant life - which is significant because plants use CO2 to produce cooling. And nobody has ever measured the amount of cooling caused by plants - which is a significant omission. " The influence of atmospheric CO2 on the balance between incoming energy from the Sun and outgoing heat from the Earth (also called the planet’s energy balance) is well established. But this effect has not been experimentally confirmed outside the laboratory until now". You'll notice they chose to do it in areas with little or no plant life. link
My opinion. That's to say the opinion of me. Or an opinion of mine. Whatever you think the cooling effect of plants is, its not working, the planets getting hotter. |
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