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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Sept 20, 2024 8:43:22 GMT
You have to have a factory though.
One of our close family friends used to run this.
He wasn't pushy though. You'd probably not guess he did that kind of job as the ones with the real brains tend to be pretty modest, but you know because they just have that kind of mind. Starmer is like a government institution man. Government institutions are full of petty rules and bullshit. Anyway, we used to go sailing with them. They had a sense of humour as well. Look at Starmer. He is as grey as a typical British sky around Birmingham way.
You don’t have to “ have a factory “ to be a highly successful middle class professional . Yes we all knew rich people . I knew a millionaire who could read or write . That didn’t stop him owning land ,a business and literally scores of houses that he rented . TTL reckons his sister is a millionaire. Did you read the link? That's not sone Irish landlord but a major mining firm. These were the kind we knew. The area was truly elite, not some working class got rich, which is what I think Starmer is. I'm just saying that those I was brought up with, if they ever met Starmer would not like him one bit. I don't mean as Labour leader, but just his personality and how how operates. He's not in the club, but wants desperately to get in. He does not have any class. |
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Post by Bentley on Sept 20, 2024 14:35:52 GMT
You don’t have to “ have a factory “ to be a highly successful middle class professional . Yes we all knew rich people . I knew a millionaire who could read or write . That didn’t stop him owning land ,a business and literally scores of houses that he rented . TTL reckons his sister is a millionaire. Did you read the link? That's not sone Irish landlord but a major mining firm. These were the kind we knew. The area was truly elite, not some working class got rich, which is what I think Starmer is. I'm just saying that those I was brought up with, if they ever met Starmer would not like him one bit. I don't mean as Labour leader, but just his personality and how how operates. He's not in the club, but wants desperately to get in. He does not have any class. That doesn’t stop Starmer being a highly successful middle class professional or knowing what his wife was like . The Hyacinth Bucket snobbery doesn't change that. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Sept 20, 2024 16:30:14 GMT
Did you read the link? That's not sone Irish landlord but a major mining firm. These were the kind we knew. The area was truly elite, not some working class got rich, which is what I think Starmer is. I'm just saying that those I was brought up with, if they ever met Starmer would not like him one bit. I don't mean as Labour leader, but just his personality and how how operates. He's not in the club, but wants desperately to get in. He does not have any class. That doesn’t stop Starmer being a highly successful middle class professional or knowing what his wife was like . The Hyacinth Bucket snobbery doesn't change that. I think it is an abuse of the word middle class since middle class when it was introduced was specifically those who owned factories. Not even our friends running an aluminium mining corporation could have claimed to have been that. They were not that rich!
Anyway, those who were for real were not at all snobby. This is the main point I was trying to get across. Starmer is a social climber and they are seen as somewhat false and repugnant. One clue of this type is they are obsessed with money and seem to need various status symbols to prove something which is inherently false. He was never one of them. Your character is formed early on in your life and he was an arselicking socialist. These guys who ran stuff had a rather witty view on socialists. Never in all of that time I lived in that area did I ever see a socialist politician canvass in an election.
The thing is times change and what is the fashion changes in business, but these old money areas have a remarkable ability to just carry on as they have always been.
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Post by Bentley on Sept 20, 2024 16:33:42 GMT
That doesn’t stop Starmer being a highly successful middle class professional or knowing what his wife was like . The Hyacinth Bucket snobbery doesn't change that. I think it is an abuse of the word middle class since middle class when it was introduced was specifically those who owned factories. Not even our friends running an aluminium mining corporation could have claimed to have been that. They were not that rich!
Anyway, those who were for real were not at all snobby. This is the main point I was trying to get across. Starmer is a social climber and they are seen as somewhat false and repugnant. One clue of this type is they are obsessed with money and seem to need various status symbols to prove something which is inherently false. He was never one of them. Your character is formed early on in your life and he was an arselicking socialist. These guys who ran stuff had a rather witty view on socialists. Never in all of that time I lived in that area did I ever see a socialist politician canvass in an election.
The thing is times change and what is the fashion changes in business, but these old money areas have a remarkable ability to just carry on as they have always been.
No it didn’t ..The middle class is made up of a diverse group of people, including: business and professional people, government officials, skilled workers, bureaucrats, and some farmers |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Sept 20, 2024 17:49:01 GMT
I think it is an abuse of the word middle class since middle class when it was introduced was specifically those who owned factories. Not even our friends running an aluminium mining corporation could have claimed to have been that. They were not that rich!
Anyway, those who were for real were not at all snobby. This is the main point I was trying to get across. Starmer is a social climber and they are seen as somewhat false and repugnant. One clue of this type is they are obsessed with money and seem to need various status symbols to prove something which is inherently false. He was never one of them. Your character is formed early on in your life and he was an arselicking socialist. These guys who ran stuff had a rather witty view on socialists. Never in all of that time I lived in that area did I ever see a socialist politician canvass in an election.
The thing is times change and what is the fashion changes in business, but these old money areas have a remarkable ability to just carry on as they have always been.
No it didn’t ..The middle class is made up of a diverse group of people, including: business and professional people, government officials, skilled workers, bureaucrats, and some farmers No, it was those who owned the means of production. That is very specific. We sometimes think of the working class as the mass production factory worker, but there were many other working class jobs, e.g. the tradesman. I always think it is the mark of a middle class house that they have a separate tradesman's entrance. You don't see that anymore. It's a common thing with old large houses. The farmers were also working class and they rented the land off the upper class who were given it by the king for winning an important battle or two. The upper class are very militaristic, the middle class are the engineering entrepreneurs, and the rest work for one of the other two classes, hence working class. There is a bit of a caveat though, as in many European cultures there is often referenced the merchant class. China had about ten class systems including the merchant class, the bureaucrats working for the emperor, I think the lawyers were another and so on.
You very rarely come across proper middle class these days in Britain. I met one a long time ago, and he owned a lighting factory. He was freaking out as the tax office landed him with a multimillion pound bill which he claimed he never owed. The middle class never got the amount of hassle they do now. |
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Post by Bentley on Sept 20, 2024 17:58:05 GMT
No it didn’t ..The middle class is made up of a diverse group of people, including: business and professional people, government officials, skilled workers, bureaucrats, and some farmers No, it was those who owned the means of production. That is very specific. We sometimes think of the working class as the mass production factory worker, but there were many other working class jobs, e.g. the tradesman. I always think it is the mark of a middle class house that they have a separate tradesman's entrance. You don't see that anymore. It's a common thing with old large houses. The farmers were also working class and they rented the land off the upper class who were given it by the king for winning an important battle or two. The upper class are very militaristic, the middle class are the engineering entrepreneurs, and the rest work for one of the other two classes, hence working class. There is a bit of a caveat though, as in many European cultures there is often referenced the merchant class. China had about ten class systems including the merchant class, the bureaucrats working for the emperor, I think the lawyers were another and so on.
You very rarely come across proper middle class these days in Britain. I met one a long time ago, and he owned a lighting factory. He was freaking out as the tax office landed him with a multimillion pound bill which he claimed he never owned. The middle class never got the amount of hassle they do now. Nope.Middle class were and are professionals . Doctors, lawyers, accountants , highly skilled artisans ,engineers ,shop owners etc. Factory owners may or may have not have been middle class but being a factory owner wasn’t the only qualification for middle class status. Upper middle class would be high ranking clergy, wealthy middle class connected to the highest social status , high ranking academics etc. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Sept 20, 2024 19:19:05 GMT
No, it was those who owned the means of production. That is very specific. We sometimes think of the working class as the mass production factory worker, but there were many other working class jobs, e.g. the tradesman. I always think it is the mark of a middle class house that they have a separate tradesman's entrance. You don't see that anymore. It's a common thing with old large houses. The farmers were also working class and they rented the land off the upper class who were given it by the king for winning an important battle or two. The upper class are very militaristic, the middle class are the engineering entrepreneurs, and the rest work for one of the other two classes, hence working class. There is a bit of a caveat though, as in many European cultures there is often referenced the merchant class. China had about ten class systems including the merchant class, the bureaucrats working for the emperor, I think the lawyers were another and so on.
You very rarely come across proper middle class these days in Britain. I met one a long time ago, and he owned a lighting factory. He was freaking out as the tax office landed him with a multimillion pound bill which he claimed he never owned. The middle class never got the amount of hassle they do now. Nope.Middle class were and are professionals . Doctors, lawyers, accountants , highly skilled artisans ,engineers ,shop owners etc. Factory owners may or may have not have been middle class but being a factory owner wasn’t the only qualification for middle class status. Upper middle class would be high ranking clergy, wealthy middle class connected to the highest social status , high ranking academics etc. I appreciate a lot of people think that today, but it was certainly not the case back in the industrial revolution. The factories added a new class, since before that everyone was arselicking the aristocracy in the great manor house on the hill. Artists worked in art guilds under the guidance of the head artist who had a bit of a name for himself so could sell OK. It was a skilled tradesman. Look around the very southern parts of the Manchester conurbation and you will see the factory owner's houses. It's seriously out of your league if you fink you is middle class. They had more money then relative to everyone else than a rich person does today. The money gave then the power to rival the upper class. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Sept 20, 2024 19:40:00 GMT
Hmmmmmm I recall watching the all female crew of a minesweeper docked at Barrow In Furness come off it for shore leave. Lock up.Your Sons. That lot had a hungry look. And as always they fell into three categories Category 1 as in 'i'll give her One' Category 0 as in I'll need to put a paper bag over her head Category -1 as in I'll need a body bag I have previously cut two holes in, to put her in, one hole she can breathe out of. .. And that's the real answer to your comment 'some men say they'd never marry such a woman'. Half are lying they'd just close their eyes at the appropriate moment, and the other half are gay or celibate. LOL, happy days. Different circs, and our 'bag categories' were slightly different. Cat 1 - I'll give her one. Cat 2 - I'll giver her one, a bag and a modicum of alcohol may be required. Cat 3 - I'll give her one, a bag and lots of alcohol will be required. |
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Post by Bentley on Sept 20, 2024 20:21:14 GMT
Nope.Middle class were and are professionals . Doctors, lawyers, accountants , highly skilled artisans ,engineers ,shop owners etc. Factory owners may or may have not have been middle class but being a factory owner wasn’t the only qualification for middle class status. Upper middle class would be high ranking clergy, wealthy middle class connected to the highest social status , high ranking academics etc. The factories added a new class, since before that everyone was arselicking the aristocracy in the great manor house on the hill. Artists worked in art guilds under the guidance of the head artist who had a bit of a name for himself so could sell OK. It was a skilled tradesman. Look around the very southern parts of the Manchester conurbation and you will see the factory owner's houses. It's seriously out of your league if you fink you is middle class. They had more money then relative to everyone else than a rich person does today. The money gave then the power to rival the upper class. They believe it because it’s true . There were lawyers, highly skilled artisans , shop owners , land owners and merchants before the Industrial Revolution . Of course the Industrial Revolution changed things but it didn’t create the middle class . |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Sept 20, 2024 21:09:51 GMT
I appreciate a lot of people think that today, but it was certainly not the case back in the industrial revolution. The factories added a new class, since before that everyone was arselicking the aristocracy in the great manor house on the hill. Artists worked in art guilds under the guidance of the head artist who had a bit of a name for himself so could sell OK. It was a skilled tradesman. Look around the very southern parts of the Manchester conurbation and you will see the factory owner's houses. It's seriously out of your league if you fink you is middle class. They had more money then relative to everyone else than a rich person does today. The money gave then the power to rival the upper class. They believe it because it’s true . There were lawyers, highly skilled artisans , shop owners , land owners and merchants before the Industrial Revolution . Of course the Industrial Revolution changed things but it didn’t create the middle class . Well according to my school it did, and I had a well-read History teacher. I'm aware we are living in the age of women men and all sorts of Alice in Wonderland stuff now where everyone believes they are middle class, but it aint true, and here is one huge reason. The middle class were free, and long before the 60s kids. When you have a 1500 acre garden then you'll know you are middle class. The mid 19th century saw the elite fight back. William Morris was one of their stooges and the Oxford crowd (art critics) in general. Anyway, good trick on how to get rid of them without any fuss - just make everyone middle class. You can imagine the scene where the middle class outbid the aristocracy on some grand painting they are trying to buy. That was the problem. They were getting to big for their boots, and needed cutting back, then enter one Marx. |
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Post by Bentley on Sept 20, 2024 21:17:49 GMT
They believe it because it’s true . There were lawyers, highly skilled artisans , shop owners , land owners and merchants before the Industrial Revolution . Of course the Industrial Revolution changed things but it didn’t create the middle class . Well according to my school it did, and I had a well-read History teacher. I'm aware we are living in the age of women men and all sorts of Alice in Wonderland stuff now where everyone believes they are middle class, but it aint true, and here is one huge reason. The middle class were free, and long before the 60s kids. When you have a 1500 acre garden then you'll know you are middle class. The mid 19th century saw the elite fight back. William Morris was one of their stooges and the Oxford crowd (art critics) in general. Anyway, good trick on how to get rid of them without any fuss - just make everyone middle class. You can imagine the scene where the middle class outbid the aristocracy on some grand painting they are trying to buy. That was the problem. They were getting to big for their boots, and needed cutting back, then enter one Marx. As I said lawyers, highly skilled artisans, shop owners,merchants and land owners were around before the Industrial Revolution and they were the middle classes of the time . A 1500 acre garden suggests upper middle class and a high social status . |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Sept 20, 2024 21:55:47 GMT
Well according to my school it did, and I had a well-read History teacher. I'm aware we are living in the age of women men and all sorts of Alice in Wonderland stuff now where everyone believes they are middle class, but it aint true, and here is one huge reason. The middle class were free, and long before the 60s kids. When you have a 1500 acre garden then you'll know you are middle class. The mid 19th century saw the elite fight back. William Morris was one of their stooges and the Oxford crowd (art critics) in general. Anyway, good trick on how to get rid of them without any fuss - just make everyone middle class. You can imagine the scene where the middle class outbid the aristocracy on some grand painting they are trying to buy. That was the problem. They were getting to big for their boots, and needed cutting back, then enter one Marx. As I said lawyers, highly skilled artisans, shop owners,merchants and land owners were around before the Industrial Revolution and they were the middle classes of the time . A 1500 acre garden suggests upper middle class and a high social status . That size was traditionally the preserve of the nobility. You'd have to be a baron or something. Actually there was something that kind of came before the main industrial revolution, and that was the wool trade. The wool merchants made an incredible fortune. Anyway, you can see who was in the money by checking the history of the stately homes. Going back further the other stinking rich were the bishops. William of Wykeham is an example of your golden bishop. |
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Post by Bentley on Sept 20, 2024 22:01:14 GMT
As I said lawyers, highly skilled artisans, shop owners,merchants and land owners were around before the Industrial Revolution and they were the middle classes of the time . A 1500 acre garden suggests upper middle class and a high social status . That size was traditionally the preserve of the nobility. You'd have to be a baron or something. Actually there was something that kind of came before the main industrial revolution, and that was the wool trade. The wool merchants made an incredible fortune. Anyway, you can see who was in the money by checking the history of the stately homes. Going back further the other stinking rich were the bishops. William of Wykeham is an example of your golden bishop. They were upper class. The middle class were in the middle …hence the word ‘ middle’. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Sept 20, 2024 22:38:34 GMT
That size was traditionally the preserve of the nobility. You'd have to be a baron or something. Actually there was something that kind of came before the main industrial revolution, and that was the wool trade. The wool merchants made an incredible fortune. Anyway, you can see who was in the money by checking the history of the stately homes. Going back further the other stinking rich were the bishops. William of Wykeham is an example of your golden bishop. They were upper class. The middle class were in the middle …hence the word ‘ middle’. Indeed, the bishops were upper class. It's a bit like if you go to Wells Cathedral today. You notice the classy people who run it. In those days the church ran everything. In our town we have a bishop's house and it is huge. I went there once for a classical recital in the private chapel. Also the mansion my Maltese woman's sister lives in has a private chapel. So there is a certain way to distinguish class in the old sense. Tradesman's entrance -> middle class, private chapel -> upper class. Working class had the loo at the bottom of the garden. |
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