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Post by Vinny on Jul 5, 2024 4:53:34 GMT
They got more votes than the Lib Dems and at the time of this post just 4 MPs.
Big case for PR.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 5, 2024 5:34:26 GMT
They got more votes than the Lib Dems and at the time of this post just 4 MPs. Big case for PR. I agree Reform UK should have it's own board. But I disagree with PR, it would be an absolute disaster for democracy. PR is political wokery, every EU state uses some form of PR which ensures the EU will continue because the more parties there are the less chance of them all agreeing on anything. The fact that the EU loves PR should be warning enough. PR means endless coalitions often three or four way coalitions, it's a nightmare. PR is the end of majority rule.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 5, 2024 5:38:44 GMT
Nigel Farage is arguing for it, so are the Greens.
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Post by Orac on Jul 5, 2024 6:03:19 GMT
They got more votes than the Lib Dems and at the time of this post just 4 MPs. Big case for PR. I agree Reform UK should have it's own board. But I disagree with PR, it would be an absolute disaster for democracy. PR is political wokery, every EU state uses some form of PR which ensures the EU will continue because the more parties there are the less chance of them all agreeing on anything. The fact that the EU loves PR should be warning enough. PR means endless coalitions often three or four way coalitions, it's a nightmare. PR is the end of majority rule. I think the truth is that 'the two party system' is inevitable regardless of selection process A 'war' for power in one place will almost always coalesce into two antagonistic alliances. The disadvantage with PR is that the deals happen behind closed doors and power is dispersed, and so there is less accountability
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 5, 2024 6:14:30 GMT
I agree Reform UK should have it's own board. But I disagree with PR, it would be an absolute disaster for democracy. PR is political wokery, every EU state uses some form of PR which ensures the EU will continue because the more parties there are the less chance of them all agreeing on anything. The fact that the EU loves PR should be warning enough. PR means endless coalitions often three or four way coalitions, it's a nightmare. PR is the end of majority rule. I think the truth is that 'the two party system' is inevitable regardless of selection process A 'war' for power in one place will almost always coalesce into two antagonistic alliances. The disadvantage with PR is that the deals happen behind closed doors and power is dispersed, and so there is less accountability Well yes, and as PR disperses accountability and power, so democracy is thinned out. PR looks democratic, but it's the complete antithesis of democracy and there's no going back. With PR there' is never any going back because no one can agree on anything. PR is the end of majority rule, the end of democracy.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 5, 2024 6:49:49 GMT
I think that the "Alternative vote" system - which we had a referendum about some years ago is worth reconsidering. It's not PR but it does allow people to vote tactically in a straightforward way.
For example my vote of choice is basically wasted every election because I want to vote for people who never win in my constituency - e.g. UKIP, Reform etc. So I have often voted either Labour or Tory when I would prefer to vote for, say, Reform. That's why we always end up with either Tory or Labour. But if we adopted alternative vote I could happily vote Reform and say my second choice is Tory. This makes it far more likely that the small parties would get a vote.
The trouble was that when Cameron allowed the referendum on AV he lied about what it did - he said it meant some people's votes were counted more than once, which ws bollocks.
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 5, 2024 6:54:40 GMT
They got more votes than the Lib Dems and at the time of this post just 4 MPs. Big case for PR. I agree Reform UK should have it's own board. But I disagree with PR, it would be an absolute disaster for democracy. PR is political wokery, every EU state uses some form of PR which ensures the EU will continue because the more parties there are the less chance of them all agreeing on anything. The fact that the EU loves PR should be warning enough. PR means endless coalitions often three or four way coalitions, it's a nightmare. PR is the end of majority rule.A landslide majority with the support of only a third of the electorate is not democracy.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 5, 2024 6:58:04 GMT
I agree Reform UK should have it's own board. But I disagree with PR, it would be an absolute disaster for democracy. PR is political wokery, every EU state uses some form of PR which ensures the EU will continue because the more parties there are the less chance of them all agreeing on anything. The fact that the EU loves PR should be warning enough. PR means endless coalitions often three or four way coalitions, it's a nightmare. PR is the end of majority rule.A landslide majority with the support of only a third of the electorate is not democracy. It is democracy. Unless you favour forcing people to vote?..
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 5, 2024 7:05:03 GMT
A landslide majority with the support of only a third of the electorate is not democracy. It is democracy. Unless you favour forcing people to vote?.. There is no point voting if your vote does not count.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 5, 2024 7:09:14 GMT
Turnout is down massively, at this point Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 got more votes than Starmer yesterday.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 5, 2024 7:09:14 GMT
It is democracy. Unless you favour forcing people to vote?.. There is no point voting if your vote does not count. That doesn't make sense. All votes count, the trick is encouraging people to use their vote. Not easy in a democracy.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 5, 2024 7:10:11 GMT
Turnout is down massively, at this point Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 got more votes than Starmer yesterday. Yes indeed and guess who's back in the HoC, lol.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 5, 2024 7:13:12 GMT
Yes, the beardy terrorist lover is back in the Commons. But will be surrounded by non Labour MPs.
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 5, 2024 7:15:13 GMT
There is no point voting if your vote does not count. That doesn't make sense. All votes count, the trick is encouraging people to use their vote. Not easy in a democracy. Britain is now a multi-party system, and first-past-the-post can’t cope.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2024 8:46:27 GMT
Say goodbye to any chance of PR over the next 5 years. Labour just won a super majority with 65% of the seats with 34% of the vote. It is democracy, but not as we know it!
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