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Post by Vinny on Jun 18, 2024 9:47:18 GMT
We are in a position to set an example for others to follow, just like we did with aid to Ukraine. Setting the example, as in, following America's orders. We weren't following America's orders when we were the first to aid Ukraine against Putin's wishes and also hit the oligarchs with huge sanctions. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2024 9:53:05 GMT
Setting the example, as in, following America's orders. We weren't following America's orders when we were the first to aid Ukraine against Putin's wishes and also hit the oligarchs with huge sanctions. Of course we were. Both the US and UK were acting in tandum and introduced sanctions at the same time. We are gophers. |
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Post by Vinny on Jun 18, 2024 9:57:34 GMT
Boris Johnson lead, Joe Biden followed.
Everyone was afraid of Putin, except Boris.
Now even Macron is standing up to the slaphead.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2024 10:14:47 GMT
It’s a bit late to be concerned about cheap Chinese importers ruining UK businesses . We used to make a lot of stuff here but chose to buy cheap Chinese stuff instead . Why get jittery now ? You are 30 years too late . Why worry about China selling cars to us when Germany, France, Korea and Japan are ‘ ruining ‘ our chances ? The EU's inability to function within the free market is being spun into project fear by the same lot as before. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 18, 2024 16:08:38 GMT
It’s a bit late to be concerned about cheap Chinese importers ruining UK businesses . We used to make a lot of stuff here but chose to buy cheap Chinese stuff instead . Why get jittery now ? You are 30 years too late . Why worry about China selling cars to us when Germany, France, Korea and Japan are ‘ ruining ‘ our chances ? I suppose it depends on whether the goods we're buying are "strategic" or not. In principle we should protect our own industry from "unfair" competition - and China is trading unfairly because it subsidises its industry and deliberately holds down the value of its currency. Admittedly Germany is also trading unfairly because of the euro. I have bought guitars made in China because they are spectacular value for money, but it's not a strategic industry. Th thing is that China kills off competition and then it raises prices when there's no alternative supplier. I suggest that it would be a very bad idea to allow China to kill important industries like car manufacture, steel etc. Having said that The UK govt has destroyed much of our strategic industry by raiding energy prices to levels that have made any industry that is heavily dependent on energy uneconomic. It's ridiculous that we're still trying to encourage EV battery production in the UK when it can't be done competitively. We could have the advantage of importing cheap EVs from China instead of importing expensive EVs from EU countries and other areas. Afaik we don’t have much of an industry producing EVs or parts . Just about every type of UK industry has been undermined by China in the last 30 years ( I remember when shirts and jeans were made in the UK ) so why are EVs so special? We left the EU yet still want to fight their battles . |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 18, 2024 18:29:28 GMT
Our manufacturing industry disappeared long before climate change. That said our service sector does very nicely. Problem is though the service sector accounts for over 80% of the UK economy and you can't export haircuts or beauty treatments. Service as in global insurance banking services etc. They are effectively exports. Do you know if they are counted as part of our exports? |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 19, 2024 6:13:39 GMT
I suppose it depends on whether the goods we're buying are "strategic" or not. In principle we should protect our own industry from "unfair" competition - and China is trading unfairly because it subsidises its industry and deliberately holds down the value of its currency. Admittedly Germany is also trading unfairly because of the euro. I have bought guitars made in China because they are spectacular value for money, but it's not a strategic industry. Th thing is that China kills off competition and then it raises prices when there's no alternative supplier. I suggest that it would be a very bad idea to allow China to kill important industries like car manufacture, steel etc. Having said that The UK govt has destroyed much of our strategic industry by raiding energy prices to levels that have made any industry that is heavily dependent on energy uneconomic. It's ridiculous that we're still trying to encourage EV battery production in the UK when it can't be done competitively. We could have the advantage of importing cheap EVs from China instead of importing expensive EVs from EU countries and other areas. Afaik we don’t have much of an industry producing EVs or parts . Just about every type of UK industry has been undermined by China in the last 30 years ( I remember when shirts and jeans were made in the UK ) so why are EVs so special? We left the EU yet still want to fight their battles . Fair point. The EU is split on tariffs on Chinese EVs because many EU countries don't make EVs. I don't think we should have got involved in the Russia-Ukraine war because it's basically the EU's problem - they provoked Russia to invade. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 19, 2024 8:58:47 GMT
Problem is though the service sector accounts for over 80% of the UK economy and you can't export haircuts or beauty treatments. Service as in global insurance banking services etc. They are effectively exports. Do you know if they are counted as part of our exports? Yes, both are considered as exports, along with many other tradable services. According to a recent report from the LSE, services account for 45% of UK exports, which is about twice that of other OECD countries. It's also about double the level as the 1980s i.e. pre-Thatcher and the ensuing de-industrialisation. Some tradable services are of dubious value for society as a whole e.g. tourism, air transport, education and legal services for oligarchs, petro-sheiks, hollywood stars and the like.
Although there are a few smaller countries such as Ireland and Luxembourg which are more specialised in services, the UK is unique amongst larger economies in being so specialised.
Another issue for the UK is that the production of tradable services is concentrated London and the South-East, with the result that areas of the country that suffered the most from de-industrialisation have not been able to participate in the stampede towards specialisation in services, at least tradable ones.
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Post by Bentley on Jun 19, 2024 12:50:19 GMT
We could have the advantage of importing cheap EVs from China instead of importing expensive EVs from EU countries and other areas. Afaik we don’t have much of an industry producing EVs or parts . Just about every type of UK industry has been undermined by China in the last 30 years ( I remember when shirts and jeans were made in the UK ) so why are EVs so special? We left the EU yet still want to fight their battles . Fair point. The EU is split on tariffs on Chinese EVs because many EU countries don't make EVs. I don't think we should have got involved in the Russia-Ukraine war because it's basically the EU's problem - they provoked Russia to invade. Indeed. We should be looking at opportunities that have arisen out of Brexit not brown nosing to them. As for the Ukraine war. I agree that the EU and US meddling in Ukraine contributed to the war . |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 19, 2024 20:40:39 GMT
Service as in global insurance banking services etc. They are effectively exports. Do you know if they are counted as part of our exports? Yes, both are considered as exports, along with many other tradable services. According to a recent report from the LSE, services account for 45% of UK exports, which is about twice that of other OECD countries. It's also about double the level as the 1980s i.e. pre-Thatcher and the ensuing de-industrialisation. Some tradable services are of dubious value for society as a whole e.g. tourism, air transport, education and legal services for oligarchs, petro-sheiks, hollywood stars and the like.
Although there are a few smaller countries such as Ireland and Luxembourg which are more specialised in services, the UK is unique amongst larger economies in being so specialised.
Another issue for the UK is that the production of tradable services is concentrated London and the South-East, with the result that areas of the country that suffered the most from de-industrialisation have not been able to participate in the stampede towards specialisation in services, at least tradable ones.
Interesting that they don't show the EU as a single unit. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 19, 2024 20:45:27 GMT
I don't think it would make much difference in a discussion on the importance of services as a fraction of exports. Only France, Ireland and Luxembourg come anywhere close to the UK; the EU as a whole is much more oriented towards exports of tangible goods than tradable services, as the chart above clearly shows.
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Post by zanygame on Jun 20, 2024 7:23:28 GMT
I don't think it would make much difference in a discussion on the importance of services as a fraction of exports. Only France, Ireland and Luxembourg come anywhere close to the UK; the EU as a whole is much more oriented towards exports of tangible goods than tradable services, as the chart above clearly shows. Good point. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 20, 2024 8:14:16 GMT
I don't think it would make much difference in a discussion on the importance of services as a fraction of exports. Only France, Ireland and Luxembourg come anywhere close to the UK; the EU as a whole is much more oriented towards exports of tangible goods than tradable services, as the chart above clearly shows. I think it was a fellow EUphile in Tony Blair who drove the agenda for the UK becoming a knowledge-based economy rather than an industrial one. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 20, 2024 8:23:27 GMT
The industrial sector was well and truly wrecked long before the Blairites came up with the cockamamie wheeze of turning Britain's universities into US-style colleges where anyone who aspired to a 'college degree' could have one if they were willing to pay for it, or could find somebody else who would.
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Post by Vinny on Jun 20, 2024 8:32:38 GMT
I don't think it would make much difference in a discussion on the importance of services as a fraction of exports. Only France, Ireland and Luxembourg come anywhere close to the UK; the EU as a whole is much more oriented towards exports of tangible goods than tradable services, as the chart above clearly shows. I think it was a fellow EUphile in Tony Blair who drove the agenda for the UK becoming a knowledge-based economy rather than an industrial one. A huge amount of industry ditched us while Labour were last in office. Even HP Sauce production was moved to the continent. |
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