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Post by dappy on Jun 10, 2024 9:00:20 GMT
Haven't posted on this forum for a long time but thought I would give it a go.
There does appear to be a c 50% chance that Trump will be reelected in USA and the "populists" (please don't lets focus on labels) are doing well in Europe. It feels most likely here that Labour will win the coming election. With such a difficult inheritance, I am not convinced they will be able to make much progress on improving the country, so feels like there MAY be an opportunity for the populists here in 2029.
Politics these days seems to be so much about bluster, lies, personality and PR and trivial abuse but I would like to get behind this and understand what it is those people who are minded to support "populists" actually want.
My aim here is not to trade slogans or to debate. I am really here to learn. If you want to engage on that basis great, if not, that's fine too. I will not try to tell you you are wrong or offer my counter opinions, but I might try and drill down a little into what you mean. All politics in the real world after all is about trade offs and compromises - and hence if you want the benefits of policy X you have to be aware that there will almost certainly be negatives too.
I don't know if this will work but thought I would give it a go and see. I will see if a few posts build up before responding.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 10, 2024 9:23:06 GMT
What I want is to be left alone. Or more specificially, less public spending, lower taxes, less immigration, less over crowding and a smaller state with less interference in our lives. Get those things sorted and pretty much everything else in the country will take care of itself.
Oh, and by "Populist" (a pejorative term), I take it you mean anyone who disagrees with your big state, high tax, net nero, extreme left control freak agenda?
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 10, 2024 10:10:27 GMT
The winner all boils down to who's the best at lying, so far Labour are in the lead on that one.
The Tories are knackered because their track record speaks for itself, whereas Labour have the upper hand of making us believe if they get in we'll all be living the dream.
At them moment Starmer is promising everything to everybody, and when he's called out you can see him for what he is ... a LIAR.
Once he gets his arrogant backside in to No.10 you'll see Starmer in his true colours, as long as he fulfills his life long dream of becoming PM nothing else matters, everything he is saying and promising to all of the people will NEVER happen, and he'll use his five years in office blaming the Tories for everything he is messing up ..... FACT.
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Post by Bentley on Jun 10, 2024 10:32:39 GMT
So he pins labels on politicians he doesn’t like then patronises people who vote for them .
But he’s aim here is not to trade slogans or to debate. Hes really here to learn…ffs.
Having said that he’s right that “ Politics these days seems to be so much about bluster, lies, personality and PR and trivial abuse”
I believe much if this is because of the media . The established media baits and traps . Politicians simply can’t give honest and thoughtful answers to interviewers that snipe and barrack them , so they just bleat out pre prepared sound bites and mantras .
Then there is social media . This is nothing less than a series of bear pits with little or no political value or values.
There is also cancel culture , where a person might lose their job or contract because if expressing a view that upsets certain political groups or pressure groups.
If the political environment is toxic then politics and politicians will be toxic
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 10, 2024 11:20:29 GMT
Not to mention that social media has become a powerful political weapon, remembering Facebook, Google, Twitter, and other major media sources ran a anti-Trump campaign of their own.
If you tried to Google or fact find anything negative about Biden or his dodgy family (Hunter) it was either blocked or censored, but they let you read the good bits. However on the other hand all you could Google or fact find about Trump was all negative aspects, and were almost encouraging people to vote Biden.
Social media is a dangerous tool in the wrong hands, and most of it right now is in the wrong hands.
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Post by Bentley on Jun 10, 2024 11:37:27 GMT
The trouble with social media is that the user is the product . The user is induced to buy products on them and their data is harvested by them .
That makes them very persuasive, very powerful and open to abuse .
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Post by dappy on Jun 10, 2024 11:58:09 GMT
Folks I wonder if I could pull the thread back to the question asked.
There are no doubt many threads on the evils of social media and it’s (I agree negative) impact on politics and on the evils of Kier Starmer.
I am not seeking to use a pejorative label for people of that political persuasion ( I don’t really know what else to use without getting into what is right wing or centre right or far right which strikes me as a tedious debate. I certainly haven’t sought to patronise anyone - I am seeking to understand what it is you want.
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Post by dappy on Jun 10, 2024 12:01:09 GMT
What I want is to be left alone. Or more specificially, less public spending, lower taxes, less immigration, less over crowding and a smaller state with less interference in our lives. Get those things sorted and pretty much everything else in the country will take care of itself.
Oh, and by "Populist" (a pejorative term), I take it you mean anyone who disagrees with your big state, high tax, net nero, extreme left control freak agenda?
Could I ask you to be a little more specific. What areas of public spending would you seek to reduce in order to find your tax cuts? Where would you target your tax cuts - on lower paid people or higher paid people or companies? |
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Post by ratcliff on Jun 10, 2024 12:03:59 GMT
Folks I wonder if I could pull the thread back to the question asked. There are no doubt many threads on the evils of social media and it’s (I agree negative) impact on politics and on the evils of Kier Starmer. I am not seeking to use a pejorative label for people of that political persuasion ( I don’t really know what else to use without getting into what is right wing or centre right or far right which strikes me as a tedious debate. I certainly haven’t sought to patronise anyone - I am seeking to understand what it is you want. I'd only add more personal responsibility, less hand holding and far less ''entitlement'' to the earlier suggestion of: What I want is to be left alone. Or more specificially, less public spending, lower taxes, less immigration, less over crowding and a smaller state with less interference in our lives. |
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Post by ratcliff on Jun 10, 2024 12:05:21 GMT
What I want is to be left alone. Or more specificially, less public spending, lower taxes, less immigration, less over crowding and a smaller state with less interference in our lives. Get those things sorted and pretty much everything else in the country will take care of itself.
Oh, and by "Populist" (a pejorative term), I take it you mean anyone who disagrees with your big state, high tax, net nero, extreme left control freak agenda?
Could I ask you to be a little more specific. What areas of public spending would you seek to reduce in order to find your tax cuts? Where would you target your tax cuts - on lower paid people or higher paid people or companies? No , you make tax cuts first - then see what scope there is for public spending |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 10, 2024 12:10:18 GMT
What I want is to be left alone. Or more specificially, less public spending, lower taxes, less immigration, less over crowding and a smaller state with less interference in our lives. Get those things sorted and pretty much everything else in the country will take care of itself.
Oh, and by "Populist" (a pejorative term), I take it you mean anyone who disagrees with your big state, high tax, net nero, extreme left control freak agenda?
Could I ask you to be a little more specific. What areas of public spending would you seek to reduce in order to find your tax cuts? Where would you target your tax cuts - on lower paid people or higher paid people or companies? "Social Protection" ie Benefits and Welfare is the largest area of public spending and therefore the one with the most scope for meaningful reduction. So we should start there. Perhaps not spending £5m a day putting up illegal immigrants (and all of the unseen costs that go with that) might also help. We should have tax cuts across the board and I would abolish things like ULEZ, and all of the other "Green" BS, that disproportionately affect the less well off.
That's where I'd start.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 10, 2024 12:12:18 GMT
I reckon Dappy is a JSO protestor who's just been let out after serving three months of a six month sentence for smashing the windows of banks who invest in fossil fuels. He will have to behave himself for the next three months, until the ankle tag comes off then he'll be off to B&Q to replen depleted stocks of orange powder... ...did you see Dappy at the snooker...  |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 10, 2024 12:12:24 GMT
Encourage nuclear families, set net zero to end of century, control/ reduce immigration, accept diversity/ multiculturalismis not necessarily a positive thing, stop white race baiting , reduce university places and increase vocational training. Explore and rethink what the NHS objectives should be in the future ….
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Post by Vinny on Jun 10, 2024 12:13:48 GMT
Regeneration of the industrial heartlands.
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Post by dappy on Jun 10, 2024 12:13:51 GMT
Ok so what changes would you wish made to benefits. I think the biggest cost is pensions. Does that get cut too?
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