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Post by Handyman on Jun 12, 2024 7:58:19 GMT
IMHO Fraud is a very difficult crime to detect it may go undetected for a long time, we saw that when just recently when a Bulgarian Gang of Fraudsters stole roughly £50 odd million from the Welfare System, also clerical errors in the Welfare System account for considerable amounts lost each year, individuals given money by mistake that they are not entitled to.
Added to that is the individuals who lie to obtain payments from the Welfare System they are not entitled to
Again IMHO there is no totally secure system someone will find a way to get into it eventually, either from outside or internally.
The UK Tax system is complicated made even more complicated by Gormless Gordon Brown, some people think if a UK resident has a Bank Account outside of the UK they must be fiddling evading Income Tax IMO wrong, the HMRC has a very long arm, they can and do work with their counterparts overseas to track down Tax Evaders.
I agree the White Van man , jobbing builders, etc only deal in cash many of them will evade tax on their earnings year in year out
Yes the high earners and companies even one man bands can and do employ Accountants Tax Experts to submit their paperwork to HMRC and can reduce the amount of Tax on their earnings which is perfectly legal but they still have to pay what HMRC demands.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 12, 2024 8:07:54 GMT
Yeah, go after the people whose fraud is minimal; never go after the big guys whose fraud heralds decades of austerity. Going after multinational Tax Evasion would benefit the Exchequer orders of magnitude more that going after small traders; but small traders don't fill party coffers with brown envelopes, do they? Likewise the super rich, one super-rich tax evader will be defrauding the Exchequer of more than whole football stadiums of small-traders. All such fraud should be tackled, and punished, but go after the ones causing most harm first. This link is from America, but I am willing to bet the numbers play out roughly the same here in the UK. The report found that as an average "everyone" under-reports taxable income by 4% to 5%. Whereas the top 1%ers were under-reporting taxable income by up to 21%. And this was just from random audits audits of approximately 5% of the top 1% earners. Similar patterns were seen in the Nordic Nations, and of course the Panama Papers showed that not only were UK residents doing the same but that the UK FSS was instrumental in facilitating this huge global tax evasion scandal. There's an easy way to cut through most of this: 1. massively simplify the UK Tax Code, to make it both harder to commit Tax Evasion and easier to detect it; 2. massively increase the penalties for Tax Evasion, starting by quadrupling tax liability on evaded wealth; 3. and for any case where Tax Evasion amounted to more than £10,000 a mandatory prison sentence; 4. all corporate Tax Evasion should see the "responsible person(s)" banned from holding executive level positions at any company in the UK for 5 years; 5. any FSS Institution found to be facilitating Tax Evasion to be subject to 2% higher corporate tax for 10 years. Benefits: 1. Overpaying of benefits, either by error or fraud was £3.6 Billion. 2. Underpaying of benefits, that is paying people less then they have a right to, was £3.3 Billion. 3. Net loss of £0.3 Billion, which against the whole Benefits Bill is just 0.1% - effectively a rounding error. All The Best There are people defrauding the "system" at every level of course, but the high earners, in my experience, usually employ accountant/s to manage their tax affairs. Of course they pay the minimum tax possible but they usually do so within the law - such as by taking their income as capital gains for example. Sunak manages to pay about 20% tax on his millions, whereas most of us pay about 30% in income tax. However my experience of small traders is that most of them offer to do the job cheaper for cash - and some demand cash only. I'm guessing, but I suggest that they do so to avoid tax. And the benefits system in the UK is a joke. If a govt sets up a department to give away money the fraudsters form a long queue, but the chacks on fraud are minimal. That's why they're currently losing about $b billion a year in fraud and error - and that's just what they know about! Except the report I linked to showed the exact opposite. Employing an accountant does not absolve them of accountability for illegal tax evasion. Sunak paying 20% while the rest of us pay 30% is a deliberate design; because it is the really rich who either make our tax laws, or "donate" to the people that do. Simplify the Tax Code se we are all - regardless of wealth -treated equally - that is the fundamental fist step that MUST be taken. All The Best
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 12, 2024 9:10:38 GMT
AI takes up a shit load of energy in the way it is performed with current chips. Well, the Chinese don't seem to mind, they are producing humanoid robots using AI with even learnt facial expressions, science fiction becomes fact in a lifetime. How the fuck they will manage to tax them might be interesting when they take control. Look at how much data they reckon they are going to feed it though. We're not talking about a security camera looking at one or two people. In fact I know exactly what they will do. They will send all the data over to their American fascists who will process it all for us. You can probably see why they would be rather helpful in this regard, surely?
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Post by patman post on Jun 12, 2024 13:12:41 GMT
There are people defrauding the "system" at every level of course, but the high earners, in my experience, usually employ accountant/s to manage their tax affairs. Of course they pay the minimum tax possible but they usually do so within the law - such as by taking their income as capital gains for example. Sunak manages to pay about 20% tax on his millions, whereas most of us pay about 30% in income tax. However my experience of small traders is that most of them offer to do the job cheaper for cash - and some demand cash only. I'm guessing, but I suggest that they do so to avoid tax. And the benefits system in the UK is a joke. If a govt sets up a department to give away money the fraudsters form a long queue, but the chacks on fraud are minimal. That's why they're currently losing about $b billion a year in fraud and error - and that's just what they know about! Except the report I linked to showed the exact opposite. Employing an accountant does not absolve them of accountability for illegal tax evasion. Sunak paying 20% while the rest of us pay 30% is a deliberate design; because it is the really rich who either make our tax laws, or "donate" to the people that do. Simplify the Tax Code se we are all - regardless of wealth -treated equally - that is the fundamental fist step that MUST be taken. All The Best Sunak effectively paid 23% overall because of the amount of his income that came from the US and was taxed there — there are agreements between the UK and other countries to avoid dual taxation. I don't see that he evaded any taxes on earnings in the UK.
Taxation works both ways — some income from abroad (eg, France) can be taxed in the UK where the tax rates or lower...
PS — I suggest only HMRC and firms of tax accountants and tax lawyers are the only supporters of the UK's complicated tax gathering processes. The whole thing could do with simplification...
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 13, 2024 6:52:54 GMT
IMHO Fraud is a very difficult crime to detect it may go undetected for a long time, we saw that when just recently when a Bulgarian Gang of Fraudsters stole roughly £50 odd million from the Welfare System, also clerical errors in the Welfare System account for considerable amounts lost each year, individuals given money by mistake that they are not entitled to. Yes the high earners and companies even one man bands can and do employ Accountants Tax Experts to submit their paperwork to HMRC and can reduce the amount of Tax on their earnings which is perfectly legal but they still have to pay what HMRC demands. They had been defrauding the DWP for over 4 years and the fraud was only stopped because a Bulgarian policeman noticed that town in Bulgaria had suddenly become very rich, with people building expensive houses and driving flash cars. And this was being funded by large monthly cheques from the UK DWP. So if it had been left up to the DWP the fraud would still be continuing. Exactly how difficult is it to detect 3 Bulgarians making thousands of claims from an address in Wood Green. Also the fraud was much larger tan £50 million apparently. The problem is that the DWP investigators are largely passive. They send out the odd questionnaire to receivers of benefits and they just believe the answers. Most of the fraud seems to be found by others - like journalists, or in this case a Bulgarian policeman. It's a joke.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 13, 2024 7:03:52 GMT
There are people defrauding the "system" at every level of course, but the high earners, in my experience, usually employ accountant/s to manage their tax affairs. Of course they pay the minimum tax possible but they usually do so within the law - such as by taking their income as capital gains for example. Sunak manages to pay about 20% tax on his millions, whereas most of us pay about 30% in income tax. However my experience of small traders is that most of them offer to do the job cheaper for cash - and some demand cash only. I'm guessing, but I suggest that they do so to avoid tax. And the benefits system in the UK is a joke. If a govt sets up a department to give away money the fraudsters form a long queue, but the chacks on fraud are minimal. That's why they're currently losing about $b billion a year in fraud and error - and that's just what they know about! Except the report I linked to showed the exact opposite. Employing an accountant does not absolve them of accountability for illegal tax evasion. Sunak paying 20% while the rest of us pay 30% is a deliberate design; because it is the really rich who either make our tax laws, or "donate" to the people that do. Simplify the Tax Code se we are all - regardless of wealth -treated equally - that is the fundamental fist step that MUST be taken. All The Best The report was about the USA which is different. HMRC are quite difficult to defraud because they launch serious investigations on people of interest (mainly the rich) and also launch random investigations to assess the scale of fraud - which the DWP don't do. So the DWP don't have a clue about the scale of fraud.
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Post by Dogburger on Jun 13, 2024 7:38:24 GMT
Well Im glad my working days are ending , wheres the fun in it if you can't rob the taxman of a couple of quid ?
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 13, 2024 10:49:43 GMT
The spying will be done with your own computer hardware. Here is a video explaining what an "NPU" chip does. www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnG66fHKRw0This guy knows his shit and is trustworthy by the way.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 13, 2024 17:11:17 GMT
The spying will be done with your own computer hardware. Here is a video explaining what an "NPU" chip does. www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnG66fHKRw0This guy knows his shit and is trustworthy by the way. Any chance you can timestamp the appropriate bit, rather than wating 20 mins of my life on yet another conspiracy theory? All The Best
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 13, 2024 17:16:20 GMT
The spying will be done with your own computer hardware. Here is a video explaining what an "NPU" chip does. www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnG66fHKRw0This guy knows his shit and is trustworthy by the way. Any chance you can timestamp the appropriate bit, rather than wating 20 mins of my life on yet another conspiracy theory? All The Best The guy does not do conspiracy theories. He is a computer engineer who sells products that protect your privacy when using a computer or mobile. The video is not unduly long. He has to describe the different systems being deployed. You can not learn everything instantly on twitter.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 13, 2024 17:26:35 GMT
Any chance you can timestamp the appropriate bit, rather than wating 20 mins of my life on yet another conspiracy theory? All The Best The guy does not do conspiracy theories. He is a computer engineer who sells products that protect your privacy when using a computer or mobile. The video is not unduly long. He has to describe the different systems being deployed. You can not learn everything instantly on twitter. So absolutely no vested interest in fear-mongering then... ...oh. wait. All The Best
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 13, 2024 17:36:21 GMT
The guy does not do conspiracy theories. He is a computer engineer who sells products that protect your privacy when using a computer or mobile. The video is not unduly long. He has to describe the different systems being deployed. You can not learn everything instantly on twitter. So absolutely no vested interest in fear-mongering then... ...oh. wait. All The Best Oh don't be silly. I listen to him regularly and learn a lot this way. Sure he is selling a few products, but why do you condemn him as a liar? It's a horrible prejudice you have against capitalists.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 13, 2024 17:47:24 GMT
So absolutely no vested interest in fear-mongering then... ...oh. wait. All The Best Oh don't be silly. I listen to him regularly and learn a lot this way. Sure he is selling a few products, but why do you condemn him as a liar? It's a horrible prejudice you have against capitalists. I never said he was a liar; just that he has a clear vested interest in over-stating any alleged risks, because he is selling risk mitigation. All The Best
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 13, 2024 18:24:48 GMT
Oh don't be silly. I listen to him regularly and learn a lot this way. Sure he is selling a few products, but why do you condemn him as a liar? It's a horrible prejudice you have against capitalists. I never said he was a liar; just that he has a clear vested interest in over-stating any alleged risks, because he is selling risk mitigation. All The Best It's the reason you should listen to him and not some stupid journalists. The systems mobiles and desktops computers use are very sophisticated, meaning there are very few people who really understand it on the level that they can program systems to mitigate these spy systems. He is one that can and does. He's just a small guy living in US marina on his own sailing boat. I know how it feels to live on such a boat because I lived on one over in Malta a while back. He's a bit more adventurous and I find his talks interesting and you will see his followers do as well. If you want bullshit though you can hear it from some Microsoft professional developer. It's what they don't tell you that you should know!
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Post by sheepy on Jun 16, 2024 12:38:23 GMT
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