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Post by Pacifico on Jun 29, 2024 11:18:15 GMT
But we get the same amount misinformation (and outright lying) in a General Election - if people feel themselves educated enough to choose a government who will implement the economic policies they want then they are certainly qualified to express a view on a trade agreement. You keep missing the elephant in the room, which is that elected MPs will be far more informed on issues, that is their job, while many voters will be influenced by the likes of the Mail, the Express and the Telegraph as they get on with their own life which for most will have nothing at all to do with politics. MP's tend to follow the Party line - whether they are informed about a subject is neither here nor there. There are about 150 MP's on the Government payroll who automatically vote in line with Government policy - the backbench MP's vote depending on the level of the whip. It would be great if each individual MP considers each policy but that simply is not the case. If the choice was left to MP's we would never have left the EU - which would have been undemocratic given that a majority of the electorate were in favour of leaving. |
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Post by see2 on Jun 29, 2024 11:36:45 GMT
You keep missing the elephant in the room, which is that elected MPs will be far more informed on issues, that is their job, while many voters will be influenced by the likes of the Mail, the Express and the Telegraph as they get on with their own life which for most will have nothing at all to do with politics. MP's tend to follow the Party line - whether they are informed about a subject is neither here nor there. There are about 150 MP's on the Government payroll who automatically vote in line with Government policy - the backbench MP's vote depending on the level of the whip. It would be great if each individual MP considers each policy but that simply is not the case. If the choice was left to MP's we would never have left the EU - which would have been undemocratic given that a majority of the electorate were in favour of leaving. Basic Tory government policy has the backing of most Tory MPs. With or without the Whip, which does put pressure on the rest to follow Government policy, there is far more information circulating amongst MPs than amongst the average voters. You trying to make some comparison between the average voter and the government doesn't make any sense when you are advocating that the average voter should make the decisions. |
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Post by ratcliff on Jun 29, 2024 12:07:59 GMT
I don't, I do indulge in facts though. And I do have 20 years of experience in my profession. Car mechanic? Bartender? All The Best GPs office hoover operative or uniformed car park attendant ? |
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Post by ratcliff on Jun 29, 2024 12:11:42 GMT
You have a limited intellect when you choose to ^^^ Is all your attacks on me basically based upon your - anti-Semitic approach in our exchanges in the past? How the fuck is this related to your false accusation that I am Antisemitic? But still no evidence that you have any relevant qualification to support your psychobabble. All The Best Probably did a city and guilds or open college course in sociology and thinks it makes him an expert in psychobabble  |
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Post by see2 on Jun 29, 2024 12:15:52 GMT
How the fuck is this related to your false accusation that I am Antisemitic? But still no evidence that you have any relevant qualification to support your psychobabble. All The Best Probably did a city and guilds or open college course in sociology and thinks it makes him an expert in psychobabble Judging by your post it looks like you have never passed any course on anything LOL |
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Post by ratcliff on Jun 29, 2024 12:28:56 GMT
You are informed (or not) whatever the size of the election - if you dont like the uninformed (as you term it) voting then what system do you prefer?. You could have a Dictatorship - or you could even (if you were desperate) try Communism again (although i would not advise it). But as far as I see it, Democracy (ie: the will of the people) is the best process. It isn't a case of the uninformed voting, that is the way it is, BUT having placed their vote in our Representative Democracy then people who should be informed and who have better resources and helpers to get them better informed then decide the best way forward. A referendum single issue vote is a far less reliable way of making good decisions because as seen in 2016 it is based upon many misinformed individuals and their opinion. And that is regardless of whether or not Brexit turns out to be a good decision in the long run. Try communism again? What are you on about? The will of WELL INFORMED people might be the best way, but it would take forever to clean up all the misleading political bias that permeates the British media.
Eh? Let's take just one very visible example You say that elected MPs are the best informed to make decisions on behalf of the general populace , they are paternalistic in their decisions The Ginger Growler , Angela Rayner ,is an elected MP and according to you she is '' informed and who have better resources and helpers to get them better informed then decide the best way forward.''
She barely attended school , spending most of her time behind the bike sheds getting pregnant and left school with nothing more than a big gob and kids in tow. She was a grandmother in her early thirties and has an adult child with his own porn videos on social media . The single qualification she obtained after school was the lowest entry level care NVQ and she worked for a short time as a council carer before switching to paid trades union duties and entering politics as a union plant. She calls those who don't vote labour- scum ,has been shown to be incompetent in TV debate , has wrecked at least one marriage and seemingly has found herself exempt from a specific part of tax legislation which expressly states that a husband and wife may have only one principle private residence between them without incurring CGT . Rayner's yet another labour idiot who can't identify a woman from a man in a dress "Transgender women’s rights are women’s rights."In what possible way is an uneducated yob like this ''better informed and a suitable person to make decisions on my (or anyone else) behalf? |
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Post by see2 on Jun 29, 2024 14:10:00 GMT
It isn't a case of the uninformed voting, that is the way it is, BUT having placed their vote in our Representative Democracy then people who should be informed and who have better resources and helpers to get them better informed then decide the best way forward. A referendum single issue vote is a far less reliable way of making good decisions because as seen in 2016 it is based upon many misinformed individuals and their opinion. And that is regardless of whether or not Brexit turns out to be a good decision in the long run. Try communism again? What are you on about? The will of WELL INFORMED people might be the best way, but it would take forever to clean up all the misleading political bias that permeates the British media.
Eh? Let's take just one very visible example You say that elected MPs are the best informed to make decisions on behalf of the general populace , they are paternalistic in their decisions The Ginger Growler , Angela Rayner ,is an elected MP and according to you she is '' informed and who have better resources and helpers to get them better informed then decide the best way forward.''
She barely attended school , spending most of her time behind the bike sheds getting pregnant and left school with nothing more than a big gob and kids in tow. She was a grandmother in her early thirties and has an adult child with his own porn videos on social media . The single qualification she obtained after school was the lowest entry level care NVQ and she worked for a short time as a council carer before switching to paid trades union duties and entering politics as a union plant. She calls those who don't vote labour- scum ,has been shown to be incompetent in TV debate , has wrecked at least one marriage and seemingly has found herself exempt from a specific part of tax legislation which expressly states that a husband and wife may have only one principle private residence between them without incurring CGT . Rayner's yet another labour idiot who can't identify a woman from a man in a dress "Transgender women’s rights are women’s rights."In what possible way is an uneducated yob like this ''better informed and a suitable person to make decisions on my (or anyone else) behalf? Please rewrite your post without the schoolyard derogative nonsense. Then I will gladly reply to it. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 29, 2024 17:02:52 GMT
MP's tend to follow the Party line - whether they are informed about a subject is neither here nor there. There are about 150 MP's on the Government payroll who automatically vote in line with Government policy - the backbench MP's vote depending on the level of the whip. It would be great if each individual MP considers each policy but that simply is not the case. If the choice was left to MP's we would never have left the EU - which would have been undemocratic given that a majority of the electorate were in favour of leaving. Basic Tory government policy has the backing of most Tory MPs. With or without the Whip, which does put pressure on the rest to follow Government policy, there is far more information circulating amongst MPs than amongst the average voters. You trying to make some comparison between the average voter and the government doesn't make any sense when you are advocating that the average voter should make the decisions. So you have no opinions of your own, you trust MP's to make all the (correct) decisions for you? |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 29, 2024 17:50:54 GMT
So you ARE and anti-Democrat. Fine, just admit it. All The Best I am a believer in common sense, and the last referendum made a fool of common sense. It was common sense that the UK would vote for Brexit. I was saying so on the other forum and its two predecessors long before the Referendum had even been announced. Let me explain. The bottom two income quintiles saw almost no benefit at all from being in the EU. And what benefit they did see was more than wiped-out by lower job security, depressed wage growth, increasingly overstretched public services, higher costs of living. All of which were massively increased by Immigration. The number of people just in the 2nd bottom quintile of income was larger than the number of people in the top 3 quintiles combined. Then you have the very bottom quintile as well, not so many of them, but much more negatively impacted by Immigration. Many more people were net-negatively impacted by the EU's ideological adherence to Freedom Of Movement than were net-positively impacted by it. It was therefore quite simple, common sense, mathematics that we would vote to leave the EU. The problem was the EU itself, and the vast majority of those who supported it, completely lacked the common sense to see that. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 29, 2024 17:55:02 GMT
How the fuck is this related to your false accusation that I am Antisemitic? But still no evidence that you have any relevant qualification to support your psychobabble. All The Best There was around a decade or more where we exchanged posts on the issue, and on a number of times you were so against the Israelis always blaming the Jews for violence between them and the Arabs to the extent that on a number of occasions I expressed the reality that there are two sides to the coin. As it happened there was your repeated anti-Semitic its all down to the Jews side, and my more reasoned objective approach, which you did not like. How does any of that PROVE you have any professional experience that would qualify you to utter the psychobabble you regularly utter? All The Best |
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Post by ratcliff on Jun 29, 2024 18:20:07 GMT
BUT having placed their vote in our Representative Democracy then people who should be informed and who have better resources and helpers to get them better informed then decide the best way forward.
Eh? Let's take just one very visible example You say that elected MPs are the best informed to make decisions on behalf of the general populace , they are paternalistic in their decisions The Ginger Growler , Angela Rayner ,is an elected MP and according to you she is '' informed and who have better resources and helpers to get them better informed then decide the best way forward.''
She barely attended school , spending most of her time behind the bike sheds getting pregnant and left school with nothing more than a big gob and kids in tow. She was a grandmother in her early thirties and has an adult child with his own porn videos on social media . The single qualification she obtained after school was the lowest entry level care NVQ and she worked for a short time as a council carer before switching to paid trades union duties and entering politics as a union plant. She calls those who don't vote labour- scum ,has been shown to be incompetent in TV debate , has wrecked at least one marriage and seemingly has found herself exempt from a specific part of tax legislation which expressly states that a husband and wife may have only one principle private residence between them without incurring CGT . Rayner's yet another labour idiot who can't identify a woman from a man in a dress "Transgender women’s rights are women’s rights."In what possible way is an uneducated yob like this ''better informed and a suitable person to make decisions on my (or anyone else) behalf? Please rewrite your post without the schoolyard derogative nonsense. Then I will gladly reply to it. It's in English, punctuated and totally factual ,what's your problem? the only word that could possibly considered derogatory is ''scum'' which is a direct quote from the MP herself who you state is informed and who have better resources and helpers to get them better informed then decide the best way forward.'' because they are an MP |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 29, 2024 20:52:24 GMT
But we get the same amount misinformation (and outright lying) in a General Election - if people feel themselves educated enough to choose a government who will implement the economic policies they want then they are certainly qualified to express a view on a trade agreement. You keep missing the elephant in the room, which is that elected MPs will be far more informed on issues, that is their job, while many voters will be influenced by the likes of the Mail, the Express and the Telegraph as they get on with their own life which for most will have nothing at all to do with politics. Question: If MPs had voted in favour of leaving the EU would you have supported leaving the EU? I dare you to answer honestly. All The Best |
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Post by see2 on Jul 1, 2024 13:07:00 GMT
Basic Tory government policy has the backing of most Tory MPs. With or without the Whip, which does put pressure on the rest to follow Government policy, there is far more information circulating amongst MPs than amongst the average voters. You trying to make some comparison between the average voter and the government doesn't make any sense when you are advocating that the average voter should make the decisions. So you have no opinions of your own, you trust MP's to make all the (correct) decisions for you? Oh come on 'P' , I'm sure you are brighter that that. Your question is not a debatable reply to my post, if anything it totally ignores my post. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 1, 2024 13:16:16 GMT
So you have no opinions of your own, you trust MP's to make all the (correct) decisions for you? Oh come on 'P' , I'm sure you are brighter that that. Your question is not a debatable reply to my post, if anything it totally ignores my post. Starmer will sell his soul to be Prime Minister, that man has all but promised all things to all people, and it's obviously working because he's clearly hoodwinked you.
Starmer is a self-serving Labour lefty leader, just like his predecessor Blair.
Blair spent all his time as Prime Minister making plans to feather his own nest, just like Starmer will do ..... they don't give a toss about the less well off or the working men/women, it's all a con.
Can you honestly say hand on heart that Tony Blair is now worth at least £80 million through after dinner speeches and hard work.
Come on see2 you need to redeem some self respect on this forum, the fact you cover up and make all sorts or excuses for the Labour party past and present, or in your own words .... New Labour that is now Next Labour but is still ruled by New Labour .... don't you see how barmy that sounds?
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 1, 2024 13:33:32 GMT
What makes me laugh, I've read most of the newspaper media headlines, and as they are reporting Labours onslaught on pensioners, inheritance tax, capital gains tax, well just about ever tax that is taxable, you can see even the reporters are starting to crap their pants at the thought of a Labour government.
Because every tax they mention in one way or another effects either them or their families .... so now the reality of a Labour clobber taxes government is setting in.
I've noticed that nearly every media source has WOKE up and I don't mean 'Woke' in the sense of Woke, I mean a WAKE UP CALL... they've gone ......... FUCK ME Labour are going to punish the working men/women of this country, the pensioners and the dead will paying taxes BEYOND the grave .... SHIT!!! .......Mummy Daddy ...... Nanny Grandad...
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