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Post by wapentake on Jun 25, 2024 7:51:15 GMT
A few more historical facts Regardless of Ukraine /Russian relations over the years the point remains that Farage told the EU that seeking their trade and co-operation deal with Ukraine would be an act of lunacy . Putin at that time was trying to form a trade bloc of countries on the Russian borders to counter EU expansion .Having Ukraine in it would have been the jewel in the crown . Indeed the elected Ukraine president decided not to go with the EU but with Putins group . That should have been the end of it but Obama and the EU conspired to eject the president from office and instate a pro western one who then pulled out of the Russian trade deal and looked to the EU . A taste of the western world and with further EU encouragement Ukraine then elected the current president . For Putin the Ukraine was lost ,only ethnic Russian Donbas and the Military base in the Crimea remained in any way pro Russian .That didn't or doesn't give Putin the right to make war with Ukraine but as Farage says it gave him a reason to and an excuse to get his own peoples backing . This was also the view of the Pope in 2022 and Boris Johnson in 2016 , yes that Boris Johnson who has been calling Farage an appeaser all week end .LOL you really couldn't make this shit up No matter what Farage may believe, he cannot alter the fact that MOST PEOPLE in Ukraine do not want to have close ties with Russia, they do not want to be part of the Russian dominated economic bloc, they do not want to be part of the Russian dominated military alliance. The argument as put forward by Farage doesn't have a leg to stand on The people of Ukraine endured far too many years where their culture, their language was supressed and dominated by Russia. The Ukrainian people want to be part of Europe, NOT RUSSIA, they have had freedom since the break-up of the Soviet Union, and now they want to take their place amongst the free nations of Europe. You cannot blame the European Union for simply accepting Ukraine's application for candidate status for the EU, not when that is the desire of most Ukrainian people, which it is. Who the hell does either Farage, or Putin think they are ? I have no truck with Putin but who the hell does Starmer or for that fact most of the tories think they are,”brexit “never meant to any of them “means brexit” If we are talking respecting democratic votes then clearly the democratic institutions of this country (and I say democratic in the loosest possible terms) never respected the brexit vote instead they cited sides of buses never put forward by Farage they then and from day one engaged in a campaign of it was all based on lies(ably supported by some on here) That the people who voted for it were thick and stupid,remember good old lady Nugee,what happened to her “I’m going to take legal action on this” when one of her parliamentary colleagues cited her as saying “I’m glad the electorate in my constituency aren’t that stupid” and they wonder why the taken for granted and derided voters in the red wall turned their back on them. Brexit has not failed because it’s never really been given a chance to work,undermined behind the scenes by politicians of all colours and aided by the civil service. So it’s a bit rich to cite democratic votes Witchfinder when one of the greatest excercises of democracy this country has ever seen was derided,sabotaged and blocked from day one. Whatever Farages shortcomings(and like us all he’s human and has some) anyone that denies Westminster needs reforming are blind to it’s obvious shortcomings and lack the self awareness in their intellect they delighted in attributing to the leave vote. |
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Post by sandypine on Jun 25, 2024 8:36:11 GMT
'Appeared'. However the Guardian would make something 'appear' that way. If you read the article, what conclusion did you reach and how did you reach your conclusion? The conclusion I reached was that Farage was open to all discussions and that in general there are people who do not think that is right. As regards Sandy Hook specifically the point was a general one as regards all the cases against him (Jones) and in general 'liberals' spend much of their time being 'illiberal'. Which was a fair point in the discussion.. The other conclusion I reached was that there is a desperation now to trawl through Farage's history to come up with something, anything, that can be used to smear. We can easily see this because of 'appeared' which is a get out instead of saying directly 'did'. Perhaps on legal advice. |
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ginnyg2
Full Member
Don't blame me - I voted for someone else.
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Post by ginnyg2 on Jun 25, 2024 8:45:55 GMT
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 25, 2024 12:07:50 GMT
Here are some Historical Facts for our Pro-Russian / Pro-Farage contingent Well a historical fact is that to get Russian agreement to peaceful German reunification they were repeatedly assured that NATO would not expand eastwards into the countries of the former Soviet Union. A pledge that was repeated time and again and which has been broken, time and again. And some people wonder how Russia could have been provoked...  NATO did not expand Eastwards. Former USSR states, politically, moved West. Neither NATO nor the EU approached countries to ask them to join; those countries approached the EU and/or NATO and asked to join - because of ongoing belligerence and sabre-rattling by Russia. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 25, 2024 12:10:59 GMT
Yeah, don't think I am going to tale mental health advice from a racist, thanks all the same. All The Best Read my signature, Nulla: You lose. I've argued you to a standstill. You have never once presented any evidence for any of the claims you have made. You just keep repeating what you have to know are lies, then attack the person who asks you for evidence to support your lies. I don't call you a racist because I have lost an argument to you; I call you a racist because you are one. All The Best |
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Post by sandypine on Jun 25, 2024 12:15:12 GMT
Well a historical fact is that to get Russian agreement to peaceful German reunification they were repeatedly assured that NATO would not expand eastwards into the countries of the former Soviet Union. A pledge that was repeated time and again and which has been broken, time and again. And some people wonder how Russia could have been provoked... NATO did not expand Eastwards. Former USSR states, politically, moved West. Neither NATO nor the EU approached countries to ask them to join; those countries approached the EU and/or NATO and asked to join - because of ongoing belligerence and sabre-rattling by Russia. All The Best So NATO bosses and Western politicians and diplomats sat on their hands as the old Soviet Empire fell apart and watched each country gain its independence and did not consider, discuss, approach or make any overtures whatsoever to countries whose locations were crucial to the aims of NATO. I think that is asking a bit much to believe and if NATO high heid yins did not they need sacking as strategically it was a golden opportunity. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 25, 2024 12:18:54 GMT
You are aware that the Conservatives have been in power for 14 Years. So they have had the chance to remove any civil servants they thought were too partisan. They chose not to, because by and large the Civil Service is not partisan, they do as instructed by government. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 25, 2024 12:20:29 GMT
NATO did not expand Eastwards. Former USSR states, politically, moved West. Neither NATO nor the EU approached countries to ask them to join; those countries approached the EU and/or NATO and asked to join - because of ongoing belligerence and sabre-rattling by Russia. All The Best So NATO bosses and Western politicians and diplomats sat on their hands as the old Soviet Empire fell apart and watched each country gain its independence and did not consider, discuss, approach or make any overtures whatsoever to countries whose locations were crucial to the aims of NATO. I think that is asking a bit much to believe and if NATO high heid yins did not they need sacking as strategically it was a golden opportunity. The record is clear. The Ukraine approached NATO after Russia started acting within Ukraine's borders.Blame Russia, they caused this. All The Best |
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ginnyg2
Full Member
Don't blame me - I voted for someone else.
Posts: 421
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Post by ginnyg2 on Jun 25, 2024 12:32:36 GMT
You are aware that the Conservatives have been in power for 14 Years. So they have had the chance to remove any civil servants they thought were too partisan. They chose not to, because by and large the Civil Service is not partisan, they do as instructed by government. All The Best On the contrary. Civil Servants are recruited by job adverts in a left wing newspaper. They are all left wing. therefore they do their damned best to thwart and obstruct anything the government tries to do. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 25, 2024 12:51:31 GMT
Well a historical fact is that to get Russian agreement to peaceful German reunification they were repeatedly assured that NATO would not expand eastwards into the countries of the former Soviet Union. A pledge that was repeated time and again and which has been broken, time and again. And some people wonder how Russia could have been provoked... NATO did not expand Eastwards. Former USSR states, politically, moved West. I'm sure that semantic point was taken a lot of notice of in the Kremlin.. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 25, 2024 12:55:30 GMT
NATO did not expand Eastwards. Former USSR states, politically, moved West. I'm sure that semantic point was taken a lot of notice of in the Kremlin.. Exactly. Commenting in the context of a reality that only exists between their ears . I say ‘ theirs ‘ because other lefties are guilty of it . |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 25, 2024 12:58:06 GMT
You have never once presented any evidence for any of the claims you have made. That's because I never made any of them - they only exist in your head. You just keep repeating what you have to know are lies, then attack the person who asks you for evidence to support your lies. Nope, that only exists in your head. And your one piece of "Evidence" was a quote from someone else that you tried to attribute to me. I don't call you a racist because I have lost an argument to you; I call you a racist because you are one. Which you can't evidence because again it only exists in your head. And a character assessment from someone suffering paranoid delusions is not one that anyone sensible is going to take seriously. You need to get help. |
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Post by sandypine on Jun 25, 2024 13:28:36 GMT
So NATO bosses and Western politicians and diplomats sat on their hands as the old Soviet Empire fell apart and watched each country gain its independence and did not consider, discuss, approach or make any overtures whatsoever to countries whose locations were crucial to the aims of NATO. I think that is asking a bit much to believe and if NATO high heid yins did not they need sacking as strategically it was a golden opportunity. The record is clear. The Ukraine approached NATO after Russia started acting within Ukraine's borders.Blame Russia, they caused this. All The Best The record is never clear, many say dialogue started in 1991 almost immediately after independence. Not sure why you would dispute that. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 25, 2024 13:40:28 GMT
You are aware that the Conservatives have been in power for 14 Years. So they have had the chance to remove any civil servants they thought were too partisan. They chose not to, because by and large the Civil Service is not partisan, they do as instructed by government. All The Best On the contrary. Civil Servants are recruited by job adverts in a left wing newspaper. They are all left wing. therefore they do their damned best to thwart and obstruct anything the government tries to do. Inc TSM? 🤔 😂 |
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ginnyg2
Full Member
Don't blame me - I voted for someone else.
Posts: 421
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Post by ginnyg2 on Jun 25, 2024 13:50:20 GMT
On the contrary. Civil Servants are recruited by job adverts in a left wing newspaper. They are all left wing. therefore they do their damned best to thwart and obstruct anything the government tries to do. Inc TSM? 🤔 😂 TSM? finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSM/ |
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