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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 24, 2024 8:39:09 GMT
What do you mean, nobody listened? I knew and I have absolutely no doubt every leading political member of every country knew. The Problem was no one was ready to declare war on Russia. Just as today other countries are not prepared to declare war on Russia. The West is not interested in a war with Russia, it is a Russian fallacy to claim they are under threat from the West. And a complete dishonesty to, like Farage, imply it is. You must have known about Russia's annexation of the Crimea, did you not think taking control of part of another country by military force was an act of war? The question is why are you treating the obvious as an unwanted truth? The EU is responsible for its geopolitics. The ramifications for this have contributed to the war in Ukraine. The power house started to crumble once the UK left, we could and should have been our own power house only for the fact we've been held back being shackled to the EU.
It's unimaginable that Starmer is going to undo any progress we can make with Brexit, the EU must be ready to pop the champagne corks if Starmer is elected, you can see the EU is falling apart, the pot has run dry, there's that much corruption within it's impossible to stop, and here we have Dickhead Starmer wanting to hook us back up into this Cesspit. ....... that man is a danger to society.... and the World.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 24, 2024 9:26:13 GMT
It's odd really, how can I claim he's lying when I don't even read his posts anymore? I guess he's just trying to bait me into responding? I have no interest in the multiaccount sock puppets that this forum allows. In fact, Baron's threads covering the global economic shift is more interesting than most of the crap some others are spamming, and his threads are so flamed that it's difficult to engage. To be fair, I think it's more basic than that: Like many on the left, he's not all there. |
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Post by see2 on Jun 24, 2024 9:55:13 GMT
Russian separatists where Ukrainian born, living in Ukraine. They had no right whatsoever to turn a part of the Ukraine into part of Russia, and probably would not have even thought to do so without being encouraged by Russia. There is no option to the reality that the Ukrainian borders were recognised and were claimed to be defended by Putin himself. The rhetoric from the West has always been against Russian aggression. There would be no need for NATO at all if Russia behaved as a normal democratic country instead of being run by a megalomaniacal dictator who's only concern is the spread of Russian control and influence over those countries surrounding Russia. Despite Russia already being the Largest country in the world.. Rights and wrongs tend to disappear the closer some things come to home especially for superpowers. Recognising vital interests even if they are not rights is a sensible route to take. If there was Scottish insurgency that threatened the holding of the UK trident fleet, the vital interests of England, Wales and NI would be a consideration. One has to be sensible. Why are you making excuses for Russian aggression ? The Ukraine has supported Russian interests by giving Russia a 25 year lease growing into a 40 year lease (around 2013) to use Crimea. There was no possible reason for Russia to annex Crimea. Or to make excuses for its annexation. The proof being that Russia / Putin's only interest was revealed by what he thought initially, that he was going to ride rough shod over the whole of Ukraine in 2022. You are thinking solely in Russian terms, and that is not sensible, it is pure bias. Russia are as usual the aggressor, just ask its neighboring countries, it is IMO nonsense to twist Russian aggression into the West being the aggressor. |
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Post by see2 on Jun 24, 2024 9:59:54 GMT
What do you mean, nobody listened? I knew and I have absolutely no doubt every leading political member of every country knew. The Problem was no one was ready to declare war on Russia. Just as today other countries are not prepared to declare war on Russia. The West is not interested in a war with Russia, it is a Russian fallacy to claim they are under threat from the West. And a complete dishonesty to, like Farage, imply it is. You must have known about Russia's annexation of the Crimea, did you not think taking control of part of another country by military force was an act of war? The question is why are you treating the obvious as an unwanted truth? Well in that case Einstein England annexed Scotland by the majority voting to be part of UK. LOL You mean Scotland voted to be part of a UK. That's two different countries, the Ukraine was a single country into which Russia interfered with. |
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Post by see2 on Jun 24, 2024 10:05:02 GMT
What do you mean, nobody listened? I knew and I have absolutely no doubt every leading political member of every country knew. The Problem was no one was ready to declare war on Russia. Just as today other countries are not prepared to declare war on Russia. The West is not interested in a war with Russia, it is a Russian fallacy to claim they are under threat from the West. And a complete dishonesty to, like Farage, imply it is. You must have known about Russia's annexation of the Crimea, did you not think taking control of part of another country by military force was an act of war? The question is why are you treating the obvious as an unwanted truth? The EU is responsible for its geopolitics. The ramifications for this have contributed to the war in Ukraine. The EU is not responsible for the people of the Ukraine wanting closer trading relations with the EU and the West. The only ramifications come from Russian needs to control others. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 24, 2024 10:11:46 GMT
The EU is responsible for its geopolitics. The ramifications for this have contributed to the war in Ukraine. The EU is not responsible for the people of the Ukraine wanting closer trading relations with the EU and the West. The only ramifications come from Russian needs to control others. The EU is responsible for diplomacy. And just as it didn't give a fuck about Unionists in Northern Ireland, it didn't give a fuck about the division in Ukraine along religious, ethnic and regional lines. It just thinks of its own hegemony. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jun 24, 2024 11:42:41 GMT
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Post by see2 on Jun 24, 2024 12:03:04 GMT
What do you mean, nobody listened? I knew and I have absolutely no doubt every leading political member of every country knew. The Problem was no one was ready to declare war on Russia. Just as today other countries are not prepared to declare war on Russia. The West is not interested in a war with Russia, it is a Russian fallacy to claim they are under threat from the West. And a complete dishonesty to, like Farage, imply it is. You must have known about Russia's annexation of the Crimea, did you not think taking control of part of another country by military force was an act of war? The question is why are you treating the obvious as an unwanted truth? The US invasion of Grenada was an act of war but we accept that sometimes circumstance dictate what happens and pragmatism is a pretty useful anti war tool. It is not as if the people of the Crimea were violently opposed to the takeover. The invasion of Grenada was deemed illegal. Grenada got caught up in the fight between the spread of Russian Communism and Western Democracy. A different situation to Russia's need to just take control of other countries. One thing is certain, Putin would never have agreed to a full internationally covered referendum in Crimea. |
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Post by see2 on Jun 24, 2024 12:08:51 GMT
The EU is not responsible for the people of the Ukraine wanting closer trading relations with the EU and the West. The only ramifications come from Russian needs to control others. The EU is responsible for diplomacy. And just as it didn't give a fuck about Unionists in Northern Ireland, it didn't give a fuck about the division in Ukraine along religious, ethnic and regional lines.It just thinks of its own hegemony. Don't post idiotic remarks about the EU, when the EU had every right to protect its market borders. Blame the idiots who voted for Brexit when they didn't have a clue just what Brexit entailed. Most countries live with their religious, ethnic and reginal lines. In the Ukrainian situation it was a Ukrainian problem NOT A RUSSIAN PROBLEM. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 24, 2024 12:13:50 GMT
Russia didn’t tolerate the west pulling countries away from its sphere of influence coupled with NATO moving towards its borders just as the US would not tolerate the same thing from East….and just as China isn’t tolerating it .
The West thought Russia wouldn’t react and Russia thought that the west wouldn’t react after it did .
It’s a fuck up by both sides . Morality or fairness only exists in the minds of the virtue signallers .
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Post by see2 on Jun 24, 2024 12:26:14 GMT
The EU is responsible for its geopolitics. The ramifications for this have contributed to the war in Ukraine. The power house started to crumble once the UK left, we could and should have been our own power house only for the fact we've been held back being shackled to the EU.
It's unimaginable that Starmer is going to undo any progress we can make with Brexit, the EU must be ready to pop the champagne corks if Starmer is elected, you can see the EU is falling apart, the pot has run dry, there's that much corruption within it's impossible to stop, and here we have Dickhead Starmer wanting to hook us back up into this Cesspit. ....... that man is a danger to society.... and the World.
That's your excuse for the failure of the Conservatives to appropriately manage the UK during all those years the Tories dominated parliament. The EU hasn't stopped France or Germany from flourishing for most of the time they have been members. If the UK fails to flourish blame no one else other than ourselves. |
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Post by see2 on Jun 24, 2024 12:35:47 GMT
Russia didn’t tolerate the west pulling countries away from its sphere of influence coupled with NATO moving towards its borders just as the US would not tolerate the same thing from East….and just as China isn’t tolerating it . The West thought Russia wouldn’t react and Russia thought that the west wouldn’t react after it did . It’s a fuck up by both sides . Morality or fairness only exists in the minds of the virtue signallers . The West didn't pull countries away from Russia's sphere of influence, the people chose, they preferred the West to a Russian dictatorship. There would be no NATO but for Russia's arrogance and aggression. Morality and fairness did exist when Putin claimed to be a believer in democracy, and said he would respect Ukrainian borders. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 24, 2024 13:35:55 GMT
Russia didn’t tolerate the west pulling countries away from its sphere of influence coupled with NATO moving towards its borders just as the US would not tolerate the same thing from East….and just as China isn’t tolerating it . The West thought Russia wouldn’t react and Russia thought that the west wouldn’t react after it did . It’s a fuck up by both sides . Morality or fairness only exists in the minds of the virtue signallers . The West didn't pull countries away from Russia's sphere of influence, the people chose, they preferred the West to a Russian dictatorship. There would be no NATO but for Russia's arrogance and aggression. Morality and fairness did exist when Putin claimed to be a believer in democracy, and said he would respect Ukrainian borders. You must be as thick as shit . If China tried to offer Mexico a rival trade alliance to NAFTA and a possible military alliance with China , Russia and Iran in the future ,the Us would not tolerate it . What the people of Mexico wanted would be nothing to do with it . Morality and fairness has nothing to do with Geopolitics . Moron . |
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Post by sandypine on Jun 24, 2024 13:36:31 GMT
Ukrainian held territory was very important to Russia's defence strategy. to think otherwise is plain wrong. Rights and wrongs tend to disappear the closer some things come to home especially for superpowers. Recognising vital interests even if they are not rights is a sensible route to take. If there was Scottish insurgency that threatened the holding of the UK trident fleet, the vital interests of England, Wales and NI would be a consideration. One has to be sensible. Why are you making excuses for Russian aggression ? The Ukraine has supported Russian interests by giving Russia a 25 year lease growing into a 40 year lease (around 2013) to use Crimea. There was no possible reason for Russia to annex Crimea. Or to make excuses for its annexation. The proof being that Russia / Putin's only interest was revealed by what he thought initially, that he was going to ride rough shod over the whole of Ukraine in 2022. You are thinking solely in Russian terms, and that is not sensible, it is pure bias. Russia are as usual the aggressor, just ask its neighboring countries, it is IMO nonsense to twist Russian aggression into the West being the aggressor. If Ukraine joined NATO would that create a bit of a conundrum in that protecting all of Ukraine from Russian aggression would prove a bit difficult with the Russian Black Sea fleet having its harbour in Ukraine territory? If Ukraine had joined teh EU in order to protect the single market some form of barrier would have to be raised between it and Russia with all the difficulties that would then arise with victualling the Black Sea fleet. Once again I make no excuses for Russian aggression but one can see International problems arising as compacts and Treaties are sought and signed. Leaving the EU was t risk of the troubles starting in NI due to the border agreements. In your world that is excusing terrorism but you know it is not and so do I it is just dealing with reality. Why does everyone ignore reality when it comes to Russia? |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 24, 2024 13:40:40 GMT
The power house started to crumble once the UK left, we could and should have been our own power house only for the fact we've been held back being shackled to the EU.
It's unimaginable that Starmer is going to undo any progress we can make with Brexit, the EU must be ready to pop the champagne corks if Starmer is elected, you can see the EU is falling apart, the pot has run dry, there's that much corruption within it's impossible to stop, and here we have Dickhead Starmer wanting to hook us back up into this Cesspit. ....... that man is a danger to society.... and the World.
That's your excuse for the failure of the Conservatives to appropriately manage the UK during all those years the Tories dominated parliament.
The EU hasn't stopped France or Germany from flourishing for most of the time they have been members. If the UK fails to flourish blame no one else other than ourselves. Wow you really don't know what's going on the in world ... do you
Emmanuel Macron has driven France to the brink of its own 'Frexit' moment by ignoring warnings about migration, EU's chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier has claimed.
Mr Barnier warned in his memoir that other countries could leave the European Union if lessons were not learned from Brexit.
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