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Post by sandypine on Jun 24, 2024 7:34:14 GMT
You can see how the establishment need shills like Witchfinder to repeatedly post lies as truth during an election campaign. This blatant misrepresentation by the establishment and shills are desperately trying to put the brakes on Reform and Farage. These people never learn. Forage, and his supporters, tried to make a big deal out of Farage's claim to have warned the West of war with Russia in September 2014, 7 months after Putin's forces in an act of aggression annexed Crimea. The idea that he did anything other than state the obvious is fallacious. You and your ilk never seem to learn. We have to consider what Russia's vital interests were in the area whereby they had agreements in place for the Navy at Sebastopol and there is little doubt they would have been put at risk by a government leaning towards NATO and the EU instead of Russia. Russia did not know which way the revolution would go and in the event it was going against Russia. We have seen the likes of the US invading independent countries like Grenada when their vital interests are at stake and it is not clear which way turbulence in that country will go. Realism is not supporting Putin realism is accepting that sometimes one has to pull back a little and not poke and provoke even if one believes one has the moral high ground; and it is dubious that that is indeed the attribute we have. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jun 24, 2024 7:35:58 GMT
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 24, 2024 7:37:30 GMT
You made a very specific claim: So far you've shown JUST ONE. You made no mention of "meetings cancelled". I am not defending anything, except the truth - something you seem to have a very tenuous relationship with. You quite clearly lied; why not just admit it? All The Best Do pull the other one, Nulla. As previously noted, you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the arse.
You and B-4 make lots of claims that I have lied. But have never once provided any proof that I have actually done so. You just "post some lies and know other right-wingers are dumb enough to fall for them" and move on to your next made-up post. Fairsociety made a very specific claim: I hit all the news feeds and found just ONE case of a Death Threat to a Reform Candidate, and that was almost 6 months ago, and someone has already been arrested for it. I asked Fairsociety to offer further evidence to support the "LOTS" part of his claim. He then claimed two things that are demonstrable lies: 1) that one case proves "LOTS" - it does not. 2) that I posted a link proving a second case of a Death Threat against a Reform Candidate - I did no such thing, in fact the candidate in question explicitly stated that no threats were made against him. So, caught in one demonstrable lie Fairsociety went on to compound it with two further demonstrable lies. At no point when levelling accusations of lying against me have either you or B-4, or any of your other Post-Truth Far-Right Fanatics shown any evidence I have done so. You overlook other fellow-travellers demonstrable lies, even after they have been fully demonstrated, simply because those fellow-travellers share your points of view. You accuse those with differing points of view of lying, without ever demonstrating they have done so, simply because they have a differing point of view to your own. That is NOT debate. That is a partisan circle-jerk. Maybe that's the only way for you and your ilk to get off these days. All The Best |
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Post by sandypine on Jun 24, 2024 7:40:09 GMT
Russian separatists were in conflict in several regions before the Russian invasion and Russia recognised these regions. We call this a dispute. Your second 'fact' is a bit more complicated as it came during the turmoil of the break up and dissolution of the Soviet Union where armed conflict was in the air. I think as regards Crimea Sebastopol was a serious consideration for Russia whereby if Ukraine joined NATO then that port would be lost to them, possibly if the EU were in control as well. The rhetoric from teh West has always been anti Russian, if one sees ones self defined enemies moving into one's zone of influence then it is provocative. One can hold up one's hands in innocence but if international diplomats have no conception of how it appeared perhaps they should find a new vocation. Russian separatists where Ukrainian born, living in Ukraine. They had no right whatsoever to turn a part of the Ukraine into part of Russia, and probably would not have even thought to do so without being encouraged by Russia. There is no option to the reality that the Ukrainian borders were recognised and were claimed to be defended by Putin himself. The rhetoric from the West has always been against Russian aggression. There would be no need for NATO at all if Russia behaved as a normal democratic country instead of being run by a megalomaniacal dictator who's only concern is the spread of Russian control and influence over those countries surrounding Russia. Despite Russia already being the Largest country in the world.Ukrainian held territory was very important to Russia's defence strategy. to think otherwise is plain wrong. Rights and wrongs tend to disappear the closer some things come to home especially for superpowers. Recognising vital interests even if they are not rights is a sensible route to take. If there was Scottish insurgency that threatened the holding of the UK trident fleet, the vital interests of England, Wales and NI would be a consideration. One has to be sensible. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 24, 2024 7:40:19 GMT
Reform UK will never become the party of government because there are not enough voters amongst the British public who would vote for them, they are not mainstream, they are on the fringes. Though with ever decreasing education standards in this country that could change. That is, of course, why Conservatives invariably preside over falling state-school education standards; only the poorly educated or Private School Brainwashed fools will ever vote for them. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 24, 2024 7:41:51 GMT
Forage, and his supporters, tried to make a big deal out of Farage's claim to have warned the West of war with Russia in September 2014, 7 months after Putin's forces in an act of aggression annexed Crimea. The idea that he did anything other than state the obvious is fallacious. You and your ilk never seem to learn. We have to consider what Russia's vital interests were in the area whereby they had agreements in place for the Navy at Sebastopol and there is little doubt they would have been put at risk by a government leaning towards NATO and the EU instead of Russia. Russia did not know which way the revolution would go and in the event it was going against Russia. We have seen the likes of the US invading independent countries like Grenada when their vital interests are at stake and it is not clear which way turbulence in that country will go. Realism is not supporting Putin realism is accepting that sometimes one has to pull back a little and not poke and provoke even if one believes one has the moral high ground; and it is dubious that that is indeed the attribute we have. By "revolution" do you actually mean the illegal invasion and annexation of The Crimea? All The Best |
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Post by see2 on Jun 24, 2024 7:43:06 GMT
Forage, and his supporters, tried to make a big deal out of Farage's claim to have warned the West of war with Russia in September 2014, 7 months after Putin's forces in an act of aggression annexed Crimea. The idea that he did anything other than state the obvious is fallacious. You and your ilk never seem to learn. He called it. He said it. Nobody listened. People like you use what he said and misrepresent what he said because you need to slur him during an election campaign. No wonder there is very little trust in British politics these days, when the truth is unwanted. What do you mean, nobody listened? I knew and I have absolutely no doubt every leading political member of every country knew. The Problem was no one was ready to declare war on Russia. Just as today other countries are not prepared to declare war on Russia. The West is not interested in a war with Russia, it is a Russian fallacy to claim they are under threat from the West. And a complete dishonesty to, like Farage, imply it is. You must have known about Russia's annexation of the Crimea, did you not think taking control of part of another country by military force was an act of war? The question is why are you treating the obvious as an unwanted truth? |
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Post by sandypine on Jun 24, 2024 7:49:53 GMT
We have to consider what Russia's vital interests were in the area whereby they had agreements in place for the Navy at Sebastopol and there is little doubt they would have been put at risk by a government leaning towards NATO and the EU instead of Russia. Russia did not know which way the revolution would go and in the event it was going against Russia. We have seen the likes of the US invading independent countries like Grenada when their vital interests are at stake and it is not clear which way turbulence in that country will go. Realism is not supporting Putin realism is accepting that sometimes one has to pull back a little and not poke and provoke even if one believes one has the moral high ground; and it is dubious that that is indeed the attribute we have. By "revolution" do yuu actually mean the illegal invasion and annexation of The Crimea? All The Best No the revolution of dignity and support for Euromaidan. These were considerations for Russia which could seriously affect their vital interests and although it is in the polls that support for Euromaidan was over 50% the majority was not huge and not tested as far as I am aware. |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 24, 2024 7:50:34 GMT
He called it. He said it. Nobody listened. People like you use what he said and misrepresent what he said because you need to slur him during an election campaign. No wonder there is very little trust in British politics these days, when the truth is unwanted. What do you mean, nobody listened? I knew and I have absolutely no doubt every leading political member of every country knew. The Problem was no one was ready to declare war on Russia. Just as today other countries are not prepared to declare war on Russia. The West is not interested in a war with Russia, it is a Russian fallacy to claim they are under threat from the West. And a complete dishonesty to, like Farage, imply it is. You must have known about Russia's annexation of the Crimea, did you not think taking control of part of another country by military force was an act of war? The question is why are you treating the obvious as an unwanted truth? Well in that case Einstein England annexed Scotland by the majority voting to be part of UK. |
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Post by sandypine on Jun 24, 2024 7:53:56 GMT
He called it. He said it. Nobody listened. People like you use what he said and misrepresent what he said because you need to slur him during an election campaign. No wonder there is very little trust in British politics these days, when the truth is unwanted. What do you mean, nobody listened? I knew and I have absolutely no doubt every leading political member of every country knew. The Problem was no one was ready to declare war on Russia. Just as today other countries are not prepared to declare war on Russia. The West is not interested in a war with Russia, it is a Russian fallacy to claim they are under threat from the West. And a complete dishonesty to, like Farage, imply it is. You must have known about Russia's annexation of the Crimea, did you not think taking control of part of another country by military force was an act of war? The question is why are you treating the obvious as an unwanted truth? The US invasion of Grenada was an act of war but we accept that sometimes circumstance dictate what happens and pragmatism is a pretty useful anti war tool. It is not as if the people of the Crimea were violently opposed to the takeover. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 24, 2024 8:07:51 GMT
You and B-4 make lots of claims that I have lied. Nope. A lie is deliberate attempt to deceive and I'm absolutely certain that you believe the nonsense that you post. But that doesn't make it true. You just "post some lies and know other right-wingers are dumb enough to fall for them" and move on to your next made-up post. Nope. But again I'm absolutely certain that you believe that anyone who disagrees with you is a liar. And again that doesn't make it true. Fairsociety made a very specific claim: I hit all the news feeds and found just ONE case of a Death Threat to a Reform Candidate, and that was almost 6 months ago, and someone has already been arrested for it. I asked Fairsociety to offer further evidence to support the "LOTS" part of his claim. He then claimed two things that are demonstrable lies: 1) that one case proves "LOTS" - it does not. 2) that I posted a link proving a second case of a Death Threat against a Reform Candidate - I did no such thing, in fact the candidate in question explicitly stated that no threats were made against him. So, caught in one demonstrable lie Fairsociety went on to compound it with two further demonstrable lies. At no point when levelling accusation of lying against me have either you or B-4, or any of your other Post-Truth Far-Right Fanatics shown any evidence I have done so. You overlook other fellow-travellers demonstrable lies, even after they have been fully demonstrated, simply because those fellow-travellers share your points of view. You accuse those with differing points of view of lying, without ever demonstrating they have done so, simply because they have a differing point of view to your own. That is NOT debate. That is a partisan circle-jerk. Maybe that's the only way for you to get off these days... None of which has anything to with me, Nulla and I can't argue over something that someone else may or may not have said. Let me be honest with you, because I am nothing if not brutally honest: When I say that you wouldn't know the truth, I don't mean that you're lying. I mean that you're deluded. Which you are. That you're trying to associate me with other people's comments demonstrates it. And when someone disagrees with you, it doesn't mean that they're lying. And if you think otherwise then you're not just delusional but paranoid. And there I may have diagnosed your problem. Seek help, Nulla. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2024 8:22:25 GMT
It's odd really, how can I claim he's lying when I don't even read his posts anymore? I guess he's just trying to bait me into responding? I have no interest in the multiaccount sock puppets that this forum allows. In fact, Baron's threads covering the global economic shift is more interesting than most of the crap some others are spamming, and his threads are so flamed that it's difficult to engage.
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 24, 2024 8:26:40 GMT
Reform UK will never become the party of government because there are not enough voters amongst the British public who would vote for them, they are not mainstream, they are on the fringes. Though with ever decreasing education standards in this country that could change. That is, of course, why Conservatives invariably preside over falling state-school education standards; only the poorly educated or Private School Brainwashed fools will ever vote for them. All The Best Here we go. Posts reminiscent of the remain intelligentsia. Never mind Reform, most of the continent are starting to see through the established status quo voting for right wing parties. I suppose it's not that they've been left with no choice for change, they're just dumb eh. |
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Post by Dogburger on Jun 24, 2024 8:30:21 GMT
"If you want an example of EU foreign policy making on the hoof and the EU's pretensions of running a defence policy that has caused real trouble you only have to look at whats happened in Ukraine "........Boris Johnson 2015
"Farage is morally repugnant for parroting Putin lies about Ukraine " .......Boris Johnson 2024
Seems our old mate Boris has become confused .
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 24, 2024 8:31:52 GMT
He called it. He said it. Nobody listened. People like you use what he said and misrepresent what he said because you need to slur him during an election campaign. No wonder there is very little trust in British politics these days, when the truth is unwanted. What do you mean, nobody listened? I knew and I have absolutely no doubt every leading political member of every country knew. The Problem was no one was ready to declare war on Russia. Just as today other countries are not prepared to declare war on Russia. The West is not interested in a war with Russia, it is a Russian fallacy to claim they are under threat from the West. And a complete dishonesty to, like Farage, imply it is. You must have known about Russia's annexation of the Crimea, did you not think taking control of part of another country by military force was an act of war? The question is why are you treating the obvious as an unwanted truth? The EU is responsible for its geopolitics. The ramifications for this have contributed to the war in Ukraine. |
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