|
|
Post by buccaneer on Jun 3, 2024 4:59:41 GMT
With the election looming, and the amount of negativity surrounding, or forever surrounding issues like the NHS in particular, economic growth, education, cost of living, jobs, immigrants etc. I've had gander at a poll conducted in Europe that polled Germans, French, Spanish, Italian, Austrian and Polish citizens. The 6000 demos represented in this poll had similar concerns to the British, with economic growth being a key facet Europeans would enjoy gaining. Of course, the EU's general lack of growth has been a monkey on its back for years but respondents in the poll were very pessimistic about economic growth. Only Spanish and Austrian respondents were happy being part of the EU. EU green targets are contentious with many Europeans viewing green targets as "nonsense". The demos in the EU is divided. It's just a shame that said demos has no way of facilitating policies with their vote, it's about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Here's the report: www.allianz.com/content/dam/onemarketing/azcom/Allianz_com/economic-research/publications/specials/en/2024/may/2024_05_29-Allianz-Pulse-AZ.pdfFor all the melodrama about life in Britain things don't look too rosy on the continent. Sure things could be better but it sure as shit doesn't mean the grass is greener on the other side of the Channel. The Labour party would be absolute fools to place Britain as a rule-taker from this lot. |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Jun 3, 2024 6:43:52 GMT
I don't know what the word 'demos' means
I did notice reading the report that for every one who thought green / net zero shit and impossible absurdity there was a Thunberg admirer who bewailed the current measures do not go far enough.
But as for the rest of the report, France is clearly pissed off at being told to do something it can't see an advantage to the French in doing and Germany is losing enthusiasm - probably because it's picking up the bill we used to get, and Spain think it's a great idea because they get paid shit loads to do fuck all.
No change here since 1957 then
|
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Jun 3, 2024 6:53:10 GMT
I don't know what the word 'demos' means Demos is the Greek word for people. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jun 3, 2024 8:18:30 GMT
I don't know what the word 'demos' means Demos is the Greek word for people. What, like when the people voted to leave the EU? |
|
|
|
Post by piglet on Jun 3, 2024 9:53:56 GMT
You cant have super massive organisations that rule all. You can have local rulers that can rule effectively by the local culture and standards. Like countries rather than federations. You can still be part of a federation, but not be ruled by it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 3, 2024 10:09:56 GMT
With the election looming, and the amount of negativity surrounding, or forever surrounding issues like the NHS in particular, economic growth, education, cost of living, jobs, immigrants etc. I've had gander at a poll conducted in Europe that polled Germans, French, Spanish, Italian, Austrian and Polish citizens. The 6000 demos represented in this poll had similar concerns to the British, with economic growth being a key facet Europeans would enjoy gaining. Of course, the EU's general lack of growth has been a monkey on its back for years but respondents in the poll were very pessimistic about economic growth. Only Spanish and Austrian respondents were happy being part of the EU. EU green targets are contentious with many Europeans viewing green targets as "nonsense". The demos in the EU is divided. It's just a shame that said demos has no way of facilitating policies with their vote, it's about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Here's the report: www.allianz.com/content/dam/onemarketing/azcom/Allianz_com/economic-research/publications/specials/en/2024/may/2024_05_29-Allianz-Pulse-AZ.pdfFor all the melodrama about life in Britain things don't look too rosy on the continent. Sure things could be better but it sure as shit doesn't mean the grass is greener on the other side of the Channel. The Labour party would be absolute fools to place Britain as a rule-taker from this lot. Our media completely ignore what is going on with the Brics and what they call the global south. I on the other hand get reports about Brics most days and see how fast their progress is. I can see the future of the EU because now it has competition. The competition is a united group with a common plan. All these developing counties are in the process of building a new international economic system and one can clearly see the indecisions of the EU bloc will see it lag behind in industrial progress. We are just so mixed up in social problems that we tend to ignore matters like who has control of the world's commodities and who has the most efficient mining technology, which then enables the cheapest manufacturing and eventually market domination. Our method of control is by military force, where the Brics are about technology and making useful things that have real utilitarian value. Our industrial strength is on the decline so you have to ask, even if we go down the military path, we will not have the manufacturing capacity or technology to wield any kind of stick that won't eventually be laughed at. One day their tech will be so far ahead of our own that if we ever tried to fight the Brics, it would be their robots that come after us and when we fire missiles they will all go up in a puff of smoke. This stuff is happening, it is just blanket censorship from the Western media. In truth they probably know they are fucked. Now our leaders will just play us along. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 3, 2024 10:46:37 GMT
You shouldn't conflate the UK with the EU in terms of technical and manufacturing capability and capacity. I was recently looking at a list of the 50 largest manufacturing companies by revenue.
Ten are based in the EU, and all manufacture what might be called technical products, or products with a high scientific or technical content.
The UK has one representative, Unilever, whose frontline products include shampoo, cosmetics, soap and detergents. One other company, GSK, just about squeaks into the top 100.
This is a very damning indictment of the de-industrialisation 'strategies' that have been pursued by successive governments since the 1970s.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hutchyns on Jun 3, 2024 11:13:08 GMT
BVL
An insightful assessment of the situation from BvL. But which came first the chicken or the egg ? Were Western European countries that had prospered through manufacturing, so wrapped up in social and cultural problems and arguments to an extent that they didn't comprehend that no Nordstream and no cheap imported commodities that underpinned their competitive production would have a big adverse effect upon their economy and their lives in general ?, or is it only in light of the economic problems hitting home as a result of their self-harming economic foolishness, that social problems have been exacerbated, and continue to grow as their economies tank ?
So with our prospects spiralling downwards, what can be done to get ourselves back in the game ? Wokeism, Diversity, Atheism, Trangenderism ... we're wedded to those, so none of them can be jettisoned in order to improve the situation ..... so is there anything in our locker ? ...... errr NATO .... lots of bombs and missiles ..... yep, the only answer is, if we can't beat 'em on the manufacturing field .... we'll nobble them militarily. And that's the situation the West finds itself in ......if your only tool is a hammer then every problem looks like a nail. The Neocons who run the show have looked around in vain, and decided their only tool to keep themselves in power is their NATO hammer .... hence the lengths they've gone to, to stoke conflict on the borders of China and Russia.
As BvL indicates, leave it much longer and the economic gulf between what BRICS is achieving and the stagnant but painfully politically correct West, will be glaring to even the most jaundiced eyes. The Western populace might well rebel to the extent of seriously threatening to tear down the Western Woke World edifice .... and that, as the handlers of Sunak, Starmer, Davey, and Biden know .... can't be allowed to happen.
You won't be able to vote your way out of this one.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 3, 2024 12:12:00 GMT
You shouldn't conflate the UK with the EU in terms of technical and manufacturing capability and capacity. I was recently looking at a list of the 50 largest manufacturing companies by revenue. Ten are based in the EU, and all manufacture what might be called technical products, or products with a high scientific or technical content. The UK has one representative, Unilever, whose frontline products include shampoo, cosmetics, soap and detergents. One other company, GSK, just about squeaks into the top 100. This is a very damning indictment of the de-industrialisation 'strategies' that have been pursued by successive governments since the 1970s. A good case study is Villiers, once supplying to 150 countries and known to be strong on research. They just caved in and you can read all about it in Wikipedia and imagine that was down to our markets and we would have seen many others fall in tandem with their experience. Typically trouble starts when you see mergers and takeovers. ICL is another example.
Regarding the EU, I see they have maintained their manufacturing more successfully than ourselves, and this is understood to be the result of cheap energy to Germany and combined with a socialist government who set it all up in a grand plan rather than jump from one plan to another every five years as we do. France and Italy have also managed OK in manufacturing, and recently there is a bit of a boom going on in Eastern Europe since the wages are pittance and manufacturers need to be in the EU bloc. However if one looks at Hungary, one sees they are aligning themselves to Brics. China is pouring big investments into it and then you have the EU's funds build infrastructure in these laggards so there is wealth transfer from rich like Germany to poor, giving them a double boost. The EU is not a happy place and Germany is hit the hardest in terms of manufacturing right now. Large manufacturing firms are moving out of it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 3, 2024 12:24:40 GMT
Which large manufacturing firms are moving out of Germany? Or the EU generally? I don't know of any. When you laud the BRICs economies you should be aware that what has the outward appearance of a market economy and a civilised society organised in accordance with western norms and values is really what a former German chancellor liked to refer to in unguarded moments as a 'termite state'.
I would contend that rather than aligning ourselves with BRICs, which appears to be your panacea solution, what we ought to doing is (re-)aligning ourselves with the rest of Europe and other societies around the world that share our cultural and political values.
An economic NATO, if you like. I'll be making a post on the case for one in a separate thread.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 3, 2024 19:10:50 GMT
Which large manufacturing firms are moving out of Germany? Or the EU generally? I don't know of any. When you laud the BRICs economies you should be aware that what has the outward appearance of a market economy and a civilised society organised in accordance with western norms and values is really what a former German chancellor liked to refer to in unguarded moments as a 'termite state'.
I would contend that rather than aligning ourselves with BRICs, which appears to be your panacea solution, what we ought to doing is (re-)aligning ourselves with the rest of Europe and other societies around the world that share our cultural and political values.
An economic NATO, if you like. I'll be making a post on the case for one in a separate thread.
BASF have built a huge plant in China so they are leaving. Volkswagen are in the process of transferring manufacturing to China and I think there are others in the car sector (BMW?) . Over in the Netherlands ASML are setting up in China but use Zeiss optics. Meanwhile As I was mentioning Hungary has had a lot of Eastern investment and Huawei want to set up factories in Eastern Europe. They are closer to the East politically. The way I see things going is China now has the reputation of being a one-stop shop for manufacturing, but I can see it ending up as a conurbation which will connect to South Korea, Malaysia, Vietnam and so on, and quite likely the Japs as well.
Anyway, if I were in charge I would make a bold move and pack up in Ukraine ( I mean Trump will pull out anyway) and then get an understanding with Brics that we wish to cooperate. I think that is all we need to do initially, so they know we are no longer going to attack them. Nasty words even are bad for us to speak. We have got to say nice things and be seen to keep our word, because right now a lot of people in Brics are wary of us or worse. If we did that then tensions would ease and it would start to give them confidence in investing in the UK. Our natives are shit at tech and industry anyway, so we really do need the industrial experts to teach us how to make stuff again and do it economically.
The thing is China wants to decouple from the US, so we could collect some business in the process, but we have to play the game. Brics is like a partnership so we want to be transparent. I think the thing they hate most is our bullshit. It does not wash and makes us look dodgy. The US wont like it, but they screw us anyway, so nothing lost there. Our problem is we are short of investment capital. China runs a large surplus and has tons of cash looking for good investments. I'd like to see some of that channelled into the best of British brains to do some joint projects. We have some good research, but we need to put that together with what China has to make even better performing products. For example over in Oxford i think it is, our nation has figured out how to make solar cells last for over 100 years. If we combine that with China solar tech we might have a fantastic product and make some serious money.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 3, 2024 20:04:11 GMT
BASF have built a huge plant in China so they are leaving.
Why do you assume that because BASF is investing in Chine that means they are 'leaving'?
Volkswagen are in the process of transferring manufacturing to China and I think there are others in the car sector (BMW?).
VW (and BMW) have been manufacturing in China for many years through the vehicle of their state-mandate JVs so what exactly is the manufacturing you believe they are 'transferring' to China?
Over in the Netherlands ASML are setting up in China but use Zeiss optics.
Unclear what Zeiss optics have to do with it but you ought to be aware that ASML's top of the line EUV product lines are barred from export to China.
Meanwhile As I was mentioning Hungary has had a lot of Eastern investment and Huawei want to set up factories in Eastern Europe.
Perhaps they do, but Hungary barely registers on the charts of Chinese FDI into Europe.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 3, 2024 20:07:07 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 4, 2024 13:48:07 GMT
BASF have built a huge plant in China so they are leaving.Why do you assume that because BASF is investing in Chine that means they are 'leaving'? Volkswagen are in the process of transferring manufacturing to China and I think there are others in the car sector (BMW?). VW (and BMW) have been manufacturing in China for many years through the vehicle of their state-mandate JVs so what exactly is the manufacturing you believe they are 'transferring' to China? Over in the Netherlands ASML are setting up in China but use Zeiss optics.Unclear what Zeiss optics have to do with it but you ought to be aware that ASML's top of the line EUV product lines are barred from export to China. Meanwhile As I was mentioning Hungary has had a lot of Eastern investment and Huawei want to set up factories in Eastern Europe.Perhaps they do, but Hungary barely registers on the charts of Chinese FDI into Europe. Viktor Orbán has just done a state visit to China and met with President Xi. I've been watching developments here and from what I see, Viktor Orbán is grinning like a Cheshire cat and President Xi has put a lot of business his way and signed a large agreement. This type of meeting is a regular occurrence with China, but more often associated with their more immediate neighbours and countries in the global south, which include Africa and South America regions and also the Middle East. The difference here is Hungary is a member of the EU, and the EU is rather ambivalent with its relationship with China. From the one hand they have America telling them what to do, but from the business community, they keep saying to their respective EU member governments that they have to do business with China and would favour a more open relationship. France and Germany are quite pro-China and well, and especially France because France is one of those Western nations that have told the US to stick it on occasions, so China trusts France will be more independent of US pressure. I think China and France signed a big deal a while ago and Airbus is doing really well at the moment as they replace Boeing aircraft that China is no longer happy to buy.
Anyway, perhaps the EU will connect itself with China more closely in the future, it is hard to say right now, but the UK can be a lot more agile and fix its position now and be ahead of the curve. You see over in Beijing they need China friendly European nations to stage their business and distribution in. In the last few years though our previously good relationship has been destroyed by idiot Conservative "right wingers" as they are called, but are really stupid people often from a cushy upper class position in the royal something or others to do with the army. These people are likely to be thrown out of government very soon so perhaps Labour could reset that previously good relationship we had. One good sign is they say they rule out rejoining the EU, so I hope they realise that means we have got to get our own trade deals now. We are on our own as a county and need to learn to be nice to foreign governments so we can do the business that puts the food on our tables. Labour won't look too good if it neglects business and industrial interests.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 5, 2024 7:52:44 GMT
Rather than indulging in one of your trademark meandering reveries why not answer the questions I actually posed?
|
|
