Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2024 5:43:47 GMT
I have heard of the Laffer Curve many times, always trumpeted by the wealthy to justify tax cuts for themselves. But the point at which tax rates are so high that less taxes rather than more are raised is most broadly estimated to be about 70%. Above that rate tax rises result in less tax being raised. Below that rate they result in more being raised. As you know tax rates are well below that level, so cutting them further for higher earners is likely to cost more than it raises. I do however tend to think that earned incomes are overtaxed in this country, whilst unearned incomes and wealth in the form of assets, including property are undertaxed. So I would not, as I once might have, advocate higher top rates of income tax, but would happily advocate across the board reductions in income taxes. This would have to include large increases in the basic rate and higher rate tax thresholds, perhaps the abolition of the 45p rate and ideally also the abolition of National Insurance. Just two tax rates, 20p and 40p. But for this to be feasible without the kind of devastating cuts that would cause our nation immense damage, the burden would have to be shifted towards higher taxes on wealth assets and unearned incomes of certain kinds. To look for untaxed income one only has to look at the untaxed income of the millions of welfare handout spongers (OAP pensions are already taxable) Treat them like normal working taxpayers in the interests of fairness Tax them on their handout packages at income tax rates above the personal allowance Ah, so the problem with taxation is that the poor don't pay enough of it. Of course it is. lol |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2024 5:45:41 GMT
I have heard of the Laffer Curve many times, always trumpeted by the wealthy to justify tax cuts for themselves. But the point at which tax rates are so high that less taxes rather than more are raised is most broadly estimated to be about 70%. Above that rate tax rises result in less tax being raised. Below that rate they result in more being raised. As you know tax rates are well below that level, so cutting them further for higher earners is likely to cost more than it raises. I do however tend to think that earned incomes are overtaxed in this country, whilst unearned incomes and wealth in the form of assets, including property are undertaxed. So I would not, as I once might have, advocate higher top rates of income tax, but would happily advocate across the board reductions in income taxes. This would have to include large increases in the basic rate and higher rate tax thresholds, perhaps the abolition of the 45p rate and ideally also the abolition of National Insurance. Just two tax rates, 20p and 40p. But for this to be feasible without the kind of devastating cuts that would cause our nation immense damage, the burden would have to be shifted towards higher taxes on wealth assets and unearned incomes of certain kinds. You would struggle to tax wealth and unearned income to the level that the receipts would replace that collected by earned income. Countries around the globe have tried and failed with that idea - wealth is simply too portable in the modern economy. It entirely depends upon what form the wealth takes. It would be very difficult to move a mansion or a few acres of land, lol |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jun 2, 2024 6:40:23 GMT
What absolute twaddle - the concept that the level of taxation affects behavior is the cornerstone of much of our taxation system ffs.  Oh fuck me. Go do the research. Yes, Taxation affect Behaviour - no one is denying that. However, the Laffer Curse was supposed to show that lower taxation, especially of the wealthy, stimulates the economy to the betterment of all - the core concept of Trickle Down. Data for 50 years, from 20 ne0-liberal economic countries was collected, collated and analysed. Lower Taxes, especially on the wealthy, benefits one group, and ONLY one group - the wealth. There is not one single shred of credible evidence that Trickle-Down works... ..end of. Forget the Trussonomics bollocks, forget the Blue-Rinse Bandwagon, look at the REAL DATA. It does not work, the Laffer Curve is bunkum - a solution plucked from cherry-picked data, to a problem that never really existed. The rich are NOT over-taxed. They are grossly UNDER-taxed. All The Best Just go and read up on what the Laffer curve is before making a fool of yourself any more. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jun 2, 2024 6:46:06 GMT
You would struggle to tax wealth and unearned income to the level that the receipts would replace that collected by earned income. Countries around the globe have tried and failed with that idea - wealth is simply too portable in the modern economy. It entirely depends upon what form the wealth takes. It would be very difficult to move a mansion or a few acres of land, lol But increasing property taxes is going to raise a trivial amount given the inherent restrictions on how much you can raise them. This mornings paper is pointing out that economic stagnation is inevitable If Britain gets lucky, it will achieve around 2pc growth – better than nothing, but still woeful compared to what’s been witnessed in the United States over the past decade, or more importantly what’s needed in the UK to sustain core public services.
But this is the toxic loop Whitehall finds itself in: a combination of higher taxes and stricter regulations are designed to fill in the funding gaps, which often become worse thanks to a high tax burden and burdensome regulations that stifle economic growth.Higher taxes are going to come whatever Party wins in November - stranding us in a low growth/high tax era. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2024 8:25:46 GMT
What absolute twaddle - the concept that the level of taxation affects behavior is the cornerstone of much of our taxation system ffs. Oh fuck me. Go do the research. Yes, Taxation affect Behaviour - no one is denying that. However, the Laffer Curse was supposed to show that lower taxation, especially of the wealthy, stimulates the economy to the betterment of all - the core concept of Trickle Down. Data for 50 years, from 20 ne0-liberal economic countries was collected, collated and analysed. Lower Taxes, especially on the wealthy, benefits one group, and ONLY one group - the wealth. There is not one single shred of credible evidence that Trickle-Down works... ..end of. Forget the Trussonomics bollocks, forget the Blue-Rinse Bandwagon, look at the REAL DATA. It does not work, the Laffer Curve is bunkum - a solution plucked from cherry-picked data, to a problem that never really existed. The rich are NOT over-taxed. They are grossly UNDER-taxed. All The Best Trickle down has never worked and is pretty much discredited as a way of spreading wealth more widely. What tax cuts targeted at the wealthy actually tend to do is concentrate ever more wealth in the hands of the wealthy few at the expense of most of the rest of us. Only crumbs ever trickle down. Tax cuts would be far better targeted if they were targeted at the poor as well as middle earners. At what point will the likes of Pacifico conclude that the wealthiest - the least needy group on this planet - are rich enough already, and cease making it their life's work to shovel ever more into their pockets? The CEO of Tesco has just had his pay doubled from £5 million to £10 million. Clearly in desperate need of a tax cut just so he can keep his head above water. And if they are lucky some of it might trickle down to the plebs in the form of bigger tips in restaurants. Though the lions share will likely end up either in the Caymen Islands, or in bricks and mortar. |
|
|
|
Post by piglet on Jun 2, 2024 8:46:24 GMT
" The wealthiest, the least needy group on the planet are rich enough already". Your fatal mistake, as well as thinking trickle down does not work. I havent the strength to go into detail, you are your like is what this country is up against, and always will be, you will not go away.
The only way to explain socialism is to look at it in terms of nature, that for every force there is an equal and opposing force, that in commerce, making money, spreading wealth, a rat will be knawing away at the roots. Who do you think pays for the rip off NHS, it isnt the bloke who loads and unloads lorries.
Etc. Thank god for the wealth creators, they deserve all the good things they get, not only that, but they pay for Dorises diabetes drugs etc, Doris who worked part time and brought up a family. Now you will point too all the injustices of the tax system, ....yawn. You still wont get it, your a brain washed leftie.
|
|
|
|
Post by ratcliff on Jun 2, 2024 9:24:33 GMT
To look for untaxed income one only has to look at the untaxed income of the millions of welfare handout spongers (OAP pensions are already taxable) Treat them like normal working taxpayers in the interests of fairness Tax them on their handout packages at income tax rates above the personal allowance Ah, so the problem with taxation is that the poor don't pay enough of it. Of course it is. lol Like most lefties , you pretend that welfare handout spongers are all ''poor'' What colour is the sky on your planet? Benefit handout packages are income , normal contributing people pay tax on income - why do you want scroungers to continue to get off scot free? |
|
|
|
Post by ratcliff on Jun 2, 2024 9:35:04 GMT
Oh fuck me. Go do the research. Yes, Taxation affect Behaviour - no one is denying that. However, the Laffer Curse was supposed to show that lower taxation, especially of the wealthy, stimulates the economy to the betterment of all - the core concept of Trickle Down. Data for 50 years, from 20 ne0-liberal economic countries was collected, collated and analysed. Lower Taxes, especially on the wealthy, benefits one group, and ONLY one group - the wealth. There is not one single shred of credible evidence that Trickle-Down works... ..end of. Forget the Trussonomics bollocks, forget the Blue-Rinse Bandwagon, look at the REAL DATA. It does not work, the Laffer Curve is bunkum - a solution plucked from cherry-picked data, to a problem that never really existed. The rich are NOT over-taxed. They are grossly UNDER-taxed. All The Best Trickle down has never worked and is pretty much discredited as a way of spreading wealth more widely. What tax cuts targeted at the wealthy actually tend to do is concentrate ever more wealth in the hands of the wealthy few at the expense of most of the rest of us. Only crumbs ever trickle down. Tax cuts would be far better targeted if they were targeted at the poor as well as middle earners. At what point will the likes of Pacifico conclude that the wealthiest - the least needy group on this planet - are rich enough already, and cease making it their life's work to shovel ever more into their pockets? The CEO of Tesco has just had his pay doubled from £5 million to £10 million. Clearly in desperate need of a tax cut just so he can keep his head above water. And if they are lucky some of it might trickle down to the plebs in the form of bigger tips in restaurants. Though the lions share will likely end up either in the Caymen Islands, or in bricks and mortar.
In your post earlier you insist that untaxed welfare handout spongers are ''the poor'' Yet you think they should receive tax cuts? Indulge me , how do lefties like you propose that untaxed welfare sponging packages should be given tax cuts? (yes I know that the idiot Brown introduced the laughing named tax ''credits'' which were nothing more than more benefit handouts to scroungers- in order to have a credit there should be a debit entry - foundation level bookkeeping ) |
|
|
|
Post by sheepy on Jun 2, 2024 9:41:40 GMT
It sort of works on the principle of just give us more money and we will fix everything, if that had worked at any time, we would all be millionaires Rodney.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jun 2, 2024 10:32:23 GMT
Oh fuck me. Go do the research. Yes, Taxation affect Behaviour - no one is denying that. However, the Laffer Curse was supposed to show that lower taxation, especially of the wealthy, stimulates the economy to the betterment of all - the core concept of Trickle Down. Data for 50 years, from 20 ne0-liberal economic countries was collected, collated and analysed. Lower Taxes, especially on the wealthy, benefits one group, and ONLY one group - the wealth. There is not one single shred of credible evidence that Trickle-Down works... ..end of. Forget the Trussonomics bollocks, forget the Blue-Rinse Bandwagon, look at the REAL DATA. It does not work, the Laffer Curve is bunkum - a solution plucked from cherry-picked data, to a problem that never really existed. The rich are NOT over-taxed. They are grossly UNDER-taxed. All The Best Trickle down has never worked and is pretty much discredited as a way of spreading wealth more widely. If all you are interested in is equality of wealth then Socialism is for you - everyone can be equally poor. Of course then you have to build walls around your country to stop people escaping.. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2024 11:07:30 GMT
Trickle down has never worked and is pretty much discredited as a way of spreading wealth more widely. What tax cuts targeted at the wealthy actually tend to do is concentrate ever more wealth in the hands of the wealthy few at the expense of most of the rest of us. Only crumbs ever trickle down. Tax cuts would be far better targeted if they were targeted at the poor as well as middle earners. At what point will the likes of Pacifico conclude that the wealthiest - the least needy group on this planet - are rich enough already, and cease making it their life's work to shovel ever more into their pockets? The CEO of Tesco has just had his pay doubled from £5 million to £10 million. Clearly in desperate need of a tax cut just so he can keep his head above water. And if they are lucky some of it might trickle down to the plebs in the form of bigger tips in restaurants. Though the lions share will likely end up either in the Caymen Islands, or in bricks and mortar.
In your post earlier you insist that untaxed welfare handout spongers are ''the poor'' Yet you think they should receive tax cuts? Indulge me , how do lefties like you propose that untaxed welfare sponging packages should be given tax cuts? (yes I know that the idiot Brown introduced the laughing named tax ''credits'' which were nothing more than more benefit handouts to scroungers- in order to have a credit there should be a debit entry - foundation level bookkeeping ) Are you really too stupid to realise the inherent difference between the working poor paying their taxes and the non-working poor? And the bureaucratic lunacy of taxing people whose take home pay is then so low that they need welfare support so escapes you that you want to make it worse? |
|
|
|
Post by ProVeritas on Jun 2, 2024 11:43:03 GMT
" Your fatal mistake, as well as thinking trickle down does not work. I havent the strength to go into detail, No, you have not got the ability. There is not one single shred of evidence that Trickle-Down works, NOT ONE! All The Best |
|
|
|
Post by piglet on Jun 2, 2024 13:03:41 GMT
God help me.
|
|
|
|
Post by ratcliff on Jun 2, 2024 15:19:05 GMT
Tax cuts would be far better targeted if they were targeted at the poor
In your post earlier you insist that untaxed welfare handout spongers are ''the poor'' Yet you think they should receive tax cuts? Indulge me , how do lefties like you propose that untaxed welfare sponging packages should be given tax cuts? (yes I know that the idiot Brown introduced the laughing named tax ''credits'' which were nothing more than more benefit handouts to scroungers- in order to have a credit there should be a debit entry - foundation level bookkeeping ) Are you really too stupid to realise the inherent difference between the working poor paying their taxes and the non-working poor? And the bureaucratic lunacy of taxing people whose take home pay is then so low that they need welfare support so escapes you that you want to make it worse? The working ''poor'' pay income tax on income above personal allowance The unemployed benefit scrounger pays zero tax on income from a benefits handout package which means they have no experience (or grasp) of the reality of life for normal people because they are divorced from normal day to day living Are all lefties really too stupid to recognise the inherent (and obvious) unfairness of this vat of untaxed income inhaled by welfare handout spongers? |
|
|
|
Post by ProVeritas on Jun 2, 2024 16:20:28 GMT
Go on then, show a peer-reviewed, study comparable to the one that took 50 years of data from 20 countries (and showed Trickle-Down does not work), and show that Trickle-Down does work. We both know you can't, because it doesn't. Tax Cuts for the wealthy ONLY benefit the Wealthy. All The Best |
|
