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Post by Vinny on Apr 16, 2024 11:00:29 GMT
None of the crimes perpetuated against Ukraine can be excused, from the poisoning of a Ukrainian Presidential Candidate who was left disfigured.  The theft of Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea by imported mercenaries and Russian soldiers, the attempted theft of Odesa, the attempted coup against Kyiv. Nothing Putin has done can be excused. And those who support him 99.9% need to take a long hard look at what they are supporting. In order to put a human face on the victims who these loons demonise:     Entire neighbourhoods were destroyed, people's homes, hospitals, schools, entire families wiped out. All because paedo Putin can't accept teh result of the 1991 referendum and wants to steal Ukraine back. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2024 11:03:25 GMT
Where are the weekly protests and the "ceasefire now" brigade?
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 16, 2024 11:33:26 GMT
Where are the weekly protests and the "ceasefire now" brigade? China said via Wang Yi that they ready to host peace talks to find a solution agreeable to Ukraine and Russia.
Russia says it is open to negotiation anytime Ukraine wants to talk.
I think we are just waiting for the US to give Ukraine permission to negotiate a ceasefire.
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Post by Vinny on Apr 16, 2024 11:40:39 GMT
Where are the weekly protests and the "ceasefire now" brigade? In Russian prisons / conscripted, sent to the front lines and told advance or be shot. |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 16, 2024 11:42:29 GMT
Where are the weekly protests and the "ceasefire now" brigade? China said via Wang Yi that they ready to host peace talks to find a solution agreeable to Ukraine and Russia.
Russia says it is open to negotiation anytime Ukraine wants to talk.
I think we are just waiting for the US to give Ukraine permission to negotiate a ceasefire.
Ukraine doesn't need anyone's permission to cease fire. But the thing is this. Their land is illegally occupied. The only way this wars will end is either the total defeat of Ukraine, or the total defeat of Russia. BUT, the war would end today if Russia would stop attacking and occupying Ukrainian land. You are excusing Putin's war crimes and blaming the West & the victim (Ukraine) for Putin's land theft. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 16, 2024 12:00:32 GMT
China said via Wang Yi that they ready to host peace talks to find a solution agreeable to Ukraine and Russia.
Russia says it is open to negotiation anytime Ukraine wants to talk.
I think we are just waiting for the US to give Ukraine permission to negotiate a ceasefire.
Ukraine doesn't need anyone's permission to cease fire. But the thing is this. Their land is illegally occupied. The only way this wars will end is either the total defeat of Ukraine, or the total defeat of Russia. BUT, the war would end today if Russia would stop attacking and occupying Ukrainian land. You are excusing Putin's war crimes and blaming the West & the victim (Ukraine) for Putin's land theft. This is indeed Ukraine's thoughts on the situation. I don't think Russia actually wants their land, but rather it is really exactly what Russia said from the start, as per they want to denazify and demilitarise the country. They don't want any Nazis in the political control of the country, nor do they want Ukraine to join Nato or the EU. The best the Ukrainians can hope for is some sort of self governing republic which is constrained by not being allowed to rearm itself. Russia's motive is national security. They would be OK if Ukraine were peaceful and neutral, i.e. not an ally of the West. Of course I'm sure many would object on ideological grounds, but you have to understand Russia does not do ideology anymore. That went out of fashion with the fall of the soviet union. They are pragmatists, so any solution that means Russia does not have guns pointing at it is sure to be a good start. If I were a Ukrainian I would support it as well. It's better than being blown to pieces. |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 16, 2024 12:02:58 GMT
If Putin didn't want their land he wouldn't have invaded. You have to look at their coal oil and gas reserves to understand why the Russian mafia want control of Ukraine. Ukraine could be a substantial competitor in the energy business to Russia.  This is why Putin attacks them. He's a gangster and a thief. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 16, 2024 16:11:08 GMT
If Putin didn't want their land he wouldn't have invaded. You have to look at their coal oil and gas reserves to understand why the Russian mafia want control of Ukraine. Ukraine could be a substantial competitor in the energy business to Russia. This is why Putin attacks them. He's a gangster and a thief. You could have a point there. |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 16, 2024 17:23:00 GMT
Thanks.
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Post by Vinny on Apr 17, 2024 10:34:31 GMT
Dubdrifter, join this thread and comment.
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Post by piglet on Apr 17, 2024 10:41:12 GMT
I mentioned the resources at the beginning of the war, no one took any notice, there is reasons behind the Putin madness.
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Post by Vinny on Apr 17, 2024 10:44:21 GMT
Course there are reasons for the madness.
Putin chose to steal Donetsk and Luhansk in 2014 for their fossil fuels.
There weren't any actual separatists, only paid armed mercs.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 17, 2024 10:53:52 GMT
I mentioned the resources at the beginning of the war, no one took any notice, there is reasons behind the Putin madness. More than one though. Eastern Ukraine was the industrial half, which makes sense since it is near to the energy, but also Russia needed to shut down their industry or it would be used to manufacture arms.
By the way, if anyone thinks Russia has stolen this vast wealth from the Ukrainians, it is worth pointing out that prior to this war, the average wage in Ukraine was about $5000, so the wealth was not making it to their pockets, rather BP, Shell etc.
The locals could either get screwed with the US + UK or take their chances with the Russians.
I'm sure the Russians would like to develop the facilities, but they have also indicated they wish to rebuild the place so I guess that wealth is on the negotiating table.
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Post by Vinny on Apr 17, 2024 11:03:14 GMT
East Ukraine is where all the coal, oil and gas is, and the ore.
Of couse it was the industrial bit.
And yes, Russia did steal it.
The "separatists" were the Wagner Group and other Merc outfits, not locals.
Mercs tried taking Odesa too, but the locals destroyed the scum.
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Post by Vinny on Apr 18, 2024 5:51:16 GMT
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