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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 13, 2024 19:05:51 GMT
Great. Unfettered capitalist greed is driving almost ALL of the world's major issues right now - especially climate change. All The Best It is also driving net zero as it is the man in the street paying for it all. Are you saying the man in the street should not bear the costs of his consumerist lifestyle? Are you saying we should be able to live a life free of the consequences of our actions and choices? All The Best
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Post by borchester on Apr 13, 2024 19:17:51 GMT
This is tricky.
As the years go by I am becoming more and more susceptible to the cold, so while my grandchildren will inherit a fiery hell, at least they will know that jampa died in comfort
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2024 19:45:19 GMT
Not sure what your professional career is. Perhaps it did not teach that "SOME of the evidence being questionable is NOT the same as ALL the evidence being questionable", and that when the stakes are "critical" it is usually best to "err on the side of caution". If we act as though MMGW is real and it isn't all we ultimately have done is make the world safer , healthier, and more sustainable for future generations. If we act as though MMGW is not real and it is we have condemned future generations to poverty and resource wars. Which of those legacies would you rather leave to your children and grand-children? All The Best Which evidence is not questionable? We can see temperatures are questionable, we know that the evidence that CO2 is the culprit is a hypothesis not proven by observations, we know CO2 has galloped away these past 40 years and temperature has not followed, we know the models at best way overegg the pudding, we are told all storms and droughts and hurricanes and typhoons and rainfall are becoming worse but the evidence that that is so is pretty thin on the ground if it exists at all, we know that sea level rise is happening but at a very gentle pace not in line with the dire warnings, we have been warned the Arctic and the Antarctic are melting at a rapid rate of knots yet the ice and sea ice keep accumulating in unexpected places. The evidence that it is not an emergency is the stronger evidence of the two propositions. You now ask the time honoured question as regards legacies. Along similar lines as religions. Be a pious person or you will pay for it later, or your issue will. If we accept the warnings then it will be the hoi polloi that will suffer, with a greater number of deaths in winter, more infant mortality, more hunger and malnutrition and a lower birthrate as no measures will be successful until population declines unless the cuts and restrictions are severe. If we accept the emergency those measures will become ever more stringent. We condemn people to poverty now or poverty later. Not much of a choice. There are other choices. None are good, but all are solutions. I suspect minds greater than mine have already given it much thought an that is why t narrative is pushed so hard against reality. Just a thought if the emergency is as stated why on earth are we increasing our population at such a rapid rate. Every extra person increases our emissions. If net zero is a worthy goal then population increase works against that goal directly either in our own emissions or our exported emissions by way of imports. Possibly for the same reason we imported millions of people from countries the government waged a war on terrorism on, whilst being stamped down with anti-terror laws used on ordinary plebs. It would seem that facts no longer matter, which Pacifico kinda highlighted. Driving the narrative is key and as we can see it has become the New Age gospel. It takes real integrity and strength to fight it, but I don't think there's enough people like that today. Too many sucking on fat corpo's bellend, which is all that makes today's 'society'.
As for theory, damn, we have corporate funded movements throwing them out there. CRT is even treated as fact. A constant bombardment of bullshit, with fries and cocacola on the side.
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Post by sandypine on Apr 13, 2024 19:52:37 GMT
It is also driving net zero as it is the man in the street paying for it all. Are you saying the man in the street should not bear the costs of his consumerist lifestyle? Are you saying we should be able to live a life free of the consequences of our actions and choices? All The Best No and no. However it is deciding what the costs are that is the problem as well as the consequences. Currently one suspects that too much is demanded of him and the consequences he is told are his to bear are at best conjectural and at worst bare-faced lies.
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 13, 2024 21:19:20 GMT
It is also driving net zero as it is the man in the street paying for it all. Are you saying the man in the street should not bear the costs of his consumerist lifestyle? Are you saying we should be able to live a life free of the consequences of our actions and choices? All The Best Well we have already been hit with the costs of making the UK the world leader in reducing CO2 emissions (hence the cost of living crisis) - how much has that slowed global warming?
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Post by borchester on Apr 13, 2024 22:41:05 GMT
It is also driving net zero as it is the man in the street paying for it all. Are you saying the man in the street should not bear the costs of his consumerist lifestyle? Are you saying we should be able to live a life free of the consequences of our actions and choices? All The Best No, although when I read someone proclaim his commitment to the truth I do have the admittedly unworthy, tendency to button up my pocketsand move out of range.
That said, I have no objection to all decent types making themselves as fashionably uncomfortable as they like in the cause of making the world a better, albeit a duller, place.
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 14, 2024 10:49:42 GMT
Are you saying the man in the street should not bear the costs of his consumerist lifestyle? Are you saying we should be able to live a life free of the consequences of our actions and choices? All The Best No and no. However it is deciding what the costs are that is the problem as well as the consequences. Currently one suspects that too much is demanded of him and the consequences he is told are his to bear are at best conjectural and at worst bare-faced lies. But they are not "at best conjectural", they are 100% real. I can remember in the mid 70's where I live being so snowed in that after 2 days my father built a small sled, I thought we were going to play in the snow, we traipsed 2 miles into the nearest town to load that sled up with enough milk and bread for our street. We've not had more than a light dusting of snow in almost a decade. I am willing to bet that everyone here over the age of 30, if they are being honest, can attest to a similarly dramatic change. All The Best
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Post by sandypine on Apr 14, 2024 13:18:26 GMT
No and no. However it is deciding what the costs are that is the problem as well as the consequences. Currently one suspects that too much is demanded of him and the consequences he is told are his to bear are at best conjectural and at worst bare-faced lies. But they are not "at best conjectural", they are 100% real. I can remember in the mid 70's where I live being so snowed in that after 2 days my father built a small sled, I thought we were going to play in the snow, we traipsed 2 miles into the nearest town to load that sled up with enough milk and bread for our street. We've not had more than a light dusting of snow in almost a decade. I am willing to bet that everyone here over the age of 30, if they are being honest, can attest to a similarly dramatic change. All The Best Which consequence of the man in the street living the life he does now is 100% real other than eventually running out of viable oil reserves? What you are experiencing is weather, snow still falls in much of the country and where and how much depends on many variables. Record rainfalls, record temperatures (highest and lowest) often occur in different locations, record snowfalls and strongest winds do much the same. It seems that no matter what weather anyone gets it is a harbinger of man made disaster, everything is bad. It is just weather as there is no indication in any of the averages that things are becoming worse, instead there is a gentle warming trend. This may mean a couple of extra deaths in summer but a lot less deaths in winter and much less use of energy.
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 14, 2024 14:39:53 GMT
But they are not "at best conjectural", they are 100% real. I can remember in the mid 70's where I live being so snowed in that after 2 days my father built a small sled, I thought we were going to play in the snow, we traipsed 2 miles into the nearest town to load that sled up with enough milk and bread for our street. We've not had more than a light dusting of snow in almost a decade. I am willing to bet that everyone here over the age of 30, if they are being honest, can attest to a similarly dramatic change. All The Best Which consequence of the man in the street living the life he does now is 100% real other than eventually running out of viable oil reserves? What you are experiencing is weather, snow still falls in much of the country and where and how much depends on many variables. Record rainfalls, record temperatures (highest and lowest) often occur in different locations, record snowfalls and strongest winds do much the same. It seems that no matter what weather anyone gets it is a harbinger of man made disaster, everything is bad. It is just weather as there is no indication in any of the averages that things are becoming worse, instead there is a gentle warming trend. This may mean a couple of extra deaths in summer but a lot less deaths in winter and much less use of energy. Don't be obtuse. Weather is day to day. Climate is decade to decade. If I used to have snow frequently, but don't have any snow for a few days then that may not be any significant. If I used to have snow frequently, but now have had no snow at all for nearly a decade, then that is highly likely evidence of a significant shift. All The Best
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Post by borchester on Apr 14, 2024 14:54:34 GMT
No and no. However it is deciding what the costs are that is the problem as well as the consequences. Currently one suspects that too much is demanded of him and the consequences he is told are his to bear are at best conjectural and at worst bare-faced lies. But they are not "at best conjectural", they are 100% real. I can remember in the mid 70's where I live being so snowed in that after 2 days my father built a small sled, I thought we were going to play in the snow, we traipsed 2 miles into the nearest town to load that sled up with enough milk and bread for our street. We've not had more than a light dusting of snow in almost a decade. I am willing to bet that everyone here over the age of 30, if they are being honest, can attest to a similarly dramatic change. All The Best
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Post by sandypine on Apr 14, 2024 20:55:20 GMT
Which consequence of the man in the street living the life he does now is 100% real other than eventually running out of viable oil reserves? What you are experiencing is weather, snow still falls in much of the country and where and how much depends on many variables. Record rainfalls, record temperatures (highest and lowest) often occur in different locations, record snowfalls and strongest winds do much the same. It seems that no matter what weather anyone gets it is a harbinger of man made disaster, everything is bad. It is just weather as there is no indication in any of the averages that things are becoming worse, instead there is a gentle warming trend. This may mean a couple of extra deaths in summer but a lot less deaths in winter and much less use of energy. Don't be obtuse. Weather is day to day. Climate is decade to decade. If I used to have snow frequently, but don't have any snow for a few days then that may not be any significant. If I used to have snow frequently, but now have had no snow at all for nearly a decade, then that is highly likely evidence of a significant shift. All The Best Exactly climate is an average. It is what to broadly expect for any given year but it is never a certainty. Weather can be day to day and year to year. Because it snowed a lot in 1947 and 1963 that does not mean they are norms just as it was very warm in 1976 and 2022 that does not mean a a few warms summers is indicative of anything, they may be they may not be until, and here the IPCC give us guidance, we relate to a 30 year norm. If you did not have much snow in the last decade and that is a change from the few previous years that is irrelevant in terms of climate until you have a thirty year figure. Once you get the thirty year figure then that is an indicator to the putative climate and any changes. We had a top climate scientist making the prediction that our children will consider snow to be an unusual event. Almost immediately we had several pretty snowy cold winters which had been preceded by several warm wet winters on which he based his prediction. That was a lesson learned for him and a lot of us. Weather is a lottery on which many factors interact. Considering that the longest run of a casino ball landing on red is in the order of 35 straight spins we have to assume that although chance may define weather we know in reality that chaos rules the roost at any given time.
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Post by steppenwolf on Apr 15, 2024 6:01:13 GMT
But what if the measures we are taking to stop MMGW (such as net zero) have no effect on GW but simply empoverish the developed world so that it can't take steps to mitigate the effects of GW? Has it ever occurred to you, PV, that the abolition of fossil fuel is an easy way to eliminate capitalism - which is the stated aim of many of these bodies. Great. Unfettered capitalist greed is driving almost ALL of the world's major issues right now - especially climate change. All The Best Bit of a sweeping statement. Capitalism has also provided most of the major advances we see. But my point was that there's an obvious political reason why many of the bodies that promote the CO2 theory of warming want the elimination of fossil fuel.
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 15, 2024 7:28:21 GMT
Great. Unfettered capitalist greed is driving almost ALL of the world's major issues right now - especially climate change. All The Best Bit of a sweeping statement. Capitalism has also provided most of the major advances we see. But my point was that there's an obvious political reason why many of the bodies that promote the CO2 theory of warming want the elimination of fossil fuel. Nope, war has.Yes, it is destroying the ONLY home our species has. The world will survive, and indeed thrive, without us; without the world we are fucked.All The Best
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Post by johnofgwent on Apr 15, 2024 9:11:16 GMT
No and no. However it is deciding what the costs are that is the problem as well as the consequences. Currently one suspects that too much is demanded of him and the consequences he is told are his to bear are at best conjectural and at worst bare-faced lies. But they are not "at best conjectural", they are 100% real. I can remember in the mid 70's where I live being so snowed in that after 2 days my father built a small sled, I thought we were going to play in the snow, we traipsed 2 miles into the nearest town to load that sled up with enough milk and bread for our street. We've not had more than a light dusting of snow in almost a decade. I am willing to bet that everyone here over the age of 30, if they are being honest, can attest to a similarly dramatic change. All The Best I suppose this week is a good time to ponder reality Next Monday is my wife’s 65th birthday. Over fifty years (i first met her the week before she was 15) her birthday has some years been a day when one could and did sunbathe on a west wales beach and get sunburned, and other years be forced to take shelter from sleet and hail coming at you horizontally in a full on gale. Some weekends the lighthouse on the Porthcawl Harbour breakwater was so hot from the baking sun you would feel pain if you stood there and touched the stone with your outstretched hand, and other years if you tried yo walk to it a lifeboatman would punch you to the ground lest you succeed and put his life in peril when the eighty foot high waves sweep you into the sea and he be forced to launch to recover your corpse. I’ve stood there two years apart in the 70’s and witnessed each of those personally, and it remains the same today With climate grsphs and predictions as biased and outlandish as Ferguson’s ‘millions will die in the streets, but excuse me i’m off to shag my mistress and give her this pox’ Covid bullshit and worse, i just don’t believe any of it any more.
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Post by sandypine on Apr 15, 2024 9:55:33 GMT
But they are not "at best conjectural", they are 100% real. I can remember in the mid 70's where I live being so snowed in that after 2 days my father built a small sled, I thought we were going to play in the snow, we traipsed 2 miles into the nearest town to load that sled up with enough milk and bread for our street. We've not had more than a light dusting of snow in almost a decade. I am willing to bet that everyone here over the age of 30, if they are being honest, can attest to a similarly dramatic change. All The Best I suppose this week is a good time to ponder reality Next Monday is my wife’s 65th birthday. Over fifty years (i first met her the week before she was 15) her birthday has some years been a day when one could and did sunbathe on a west wales beach and get sunburned, and other years be forced to take shelter from sleet and hail coming at you horizontally in a full on gale. Some weekends the lighthouse on the Porthcawl Harbour breakwater was so hot from the baking sun you would feel pain if you stood there and touched the stone with your outstretched hand, and other years if you tried yo walk to it a lifeboatman would punch you to the ground lest you succeed and put his life in peril when the eighty foot high waves sweep you into the sea and he be forced to launch to recover your corpse. I’ve stood there two years apart in the 70’s and witnessed each of those personally, and it remains the same today With climate grsphs and predictions as biased and outlandish as Ferguson’s ‘millions will die in the streets, but excuse me i’m off to shag my mistress and give her this pox’ Covid bullshit and worse, i just don’t believe any of it any more. Alarmists do not like reality, they prefer the norm and any deviation from the norm reinforces their alarm credentials. The problem for them is that specifically in the UK we can have all sorts of norms in the same week and sometimes in the same day if not the same hour and if we string a lot of norms together then that also becomes not the norm. We are now in the situation where anything is hailed as an AGW effect. Lack of rain in summer, surfeit of rain in summer, lack of snow in winter. surfeit of snow in winter they have all become grist to the mill for the alarmist cause. Belief of a point of view depends greatly on how much that point of view has been shown to be correct in the past. As regards climate alarmism they have overegged the pudding so much that we no longer believe what they say and scientists siding with politicians has brought their profession into disrepute for many a citizen. Scientists have to regain that trust and the IPCC is no place to do that.
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