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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 1, 2024 9:36:38 GMT
Essential Utilities: water, gas, electricity and increasingly internet access all need at least one "operator of last resort" that is publicly owned.
Ideally, all operators in those sectors should be renationalised, because if any operator of any significant size fail the Public Purse will be used to save them.
If they continue in Private Ownership all that is happening is that Profits are privatised and liabilities are socialised - which is the great con of modern share ownership. Shareholder own a share of Liabilities as well as Profits - until such a time as that is mandated in law then no essential service should be privately owned.
Thames Water want a 40% Bill Increase for not only NOT doing their job properly but also for ladening the Company with unsustainable debt - the ONLY people who should be financially on the hook for that is Shareholders, they have green-lit remuneration packages for inept Executives, they have not exercised their right to register a vote of no confidence in the current leadership, and only because that leadership continues to hand out unsustainable and nearly always unwarranted share dividends.
When a Private Company needs to raise revenue the Shareholders should be the FIRST port of call - that is what holding a Share entails.
All The Best
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 1, 2024 9:42:46 GMT
The reason that Thames has put £500 million of investment on hold is that OFWAT are refusing to allow them to raise prices. The private sector are not going to invest if there is no return. Thames has £16 Billion in borrowing. Maybe if they invested that rather than pissing it down the drain in unsustainable and unwarranted Share Dividends and Exec Remuneration Packages they would a) actually deliver a better service, b) not routinely break the law, and c) have no need to increase bills. Since Privatisation Consumer Bills have more than paid for the levels of Investment seen in the industry. Since Privatisation the Water Industry has paid out MORE in dividends than it has invested, and it has paid more in dividends than it has borrowed. They are borrowing to artificially inflate Share Dividends and so drive up their share price It is a HUGE fucking SCAM. All The Best
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Post by Handyman on Apr 1, 2024 9:48:23 GMT
I can't think of a nationalised industry that worked properly. The NHS being a prime example, if water was nationalised we might expect to see rainbow coloured water coming out of our taps. Welsh Water and Scottish Water seem to be working OK, could this be because they're not owned by foreign interests? I don't know about Scottish water, but Welsh Water In 2022, Welsh Water was responsible for 89 sewage pollution incidents. Out of these, five were classified as having a high or significant impact12. The company’s environmental performance declined, leading to a downgrade in its rating from three stars to two stars, indicating that it “requires improvement” according to Natural Resources Wales (NRW)1. Additionally, Welsh Water released sewage into rivers, lakes, and the sea around Wales for nearly 600,000 hours last year, accounting for more than 25% of all discharges into waterways across Wales and England. The latest figures also reveal over 83,000 spills in 2022, with 77,000 of them being classified as "significant"3. They are having to spend 3.5 Billion to try and address the same problems we have in England
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2024 9:48:51 GMT
I can't think of a nationalised industry that worked properly. The NHS being a prime example, if water was nationalised we might expect to see rainbow coloured water coming out of our taps. I'm well ahead of you. I don't drink tap water.
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 1, 2024 9:50:35 GMT
Perhaps you’d be better not obsessed with shareholders best interests rather than what’s best for the people of this country and not trying to blame ofwat. How does the ownership structure affect what is best for the 'people'? Are you old enough to remember why the Water industry was privatised in the first place? I am old enough to remember the Water Industry pre-privatisation. Where I live rivers were dredged once a decade to alleviate flood risks. Roadside drainage ditched were continually maintained to alleviate flood risks. The local Sewerage Processing and Pumping Station was maintained regularly. Locally, leaks were fixed in a matter of days. If you had a problem you could walk into the local Water Office and speak to a real person, and they would expedite the solution in a timely manner. Since Privatisation the EXACT opposite is true. Only ONE group of people have benefitted from the Privatisation of Water - shareholders. Only one country, and one world leader (Maggie Thatcher) was Ideologically Moronic enough as to think the most essential public utility needed for ALL Life was a suitable target for privatisation. All
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 1, 2024 9:54:44 GMT
Welsh Water and Scottish Water seem to be working OK, could this be because they're not owned by foreign interests? I don't know about Scottish water, but Welsh Water In 2022, Welsh Water was responsible for 89 sewage pollution incidents. Out of these, five were classified as having a high or significant impact12. The company’s environmental performance declined, leading to a downgrade in its rating from three stars to two stars, indicating that it “requires improvement” according to Natural Resources Wales (NRW)1. Additionally, Welsh Water released sewage into rivers, lakes, and the sea around Wales for nearly 600,000 hours last year, accounting for more than 25% of all discharges into waterways across Wales and England. The latest figures also reveal over 83,000 spills in 2022, with 77,000 of them being classified as "significant"3. They are having to spend 3.5 Billion to try and address the same problems we have in England For the same year Thames managed 8,000 sewerage pollution incidents: LINKAll The Bets
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Post by johnofgwent on Apr 1, 2024 10:09:30 GMT
Perhaps you’d be better not obsessed with shareholders best interests rather than what’s best for the people of this country and not trying to blame ofwat. How does the ownership structure affect what is best for the 'people'? Are you old enough to remember why the Water industry was privatised in the first place? I remember hosepipe bans and assurances this would be a thing of the past with privatised supplies assured. I recall in 1981 the local paper announced the head of the water board had been given a pay rise to £35,000 and given a gong (an MBE if i recall right) after a year of drought - but nothing like ‘76 - and remember at the time dad’s house was valued at £55k, he was paid about £25k and i was getting £8,500 as a graduate with 3 years research experience I remember freelancing for Lusis IT the outsourcing shysters that did the later bankrupt Welsh Water’s computer systems in ‘97 and their board’s directors delight at being authorised to fit Quantum meters that cut the supply to a trickle so they could remotely cause eviction on the grounds of a home being unfit for human habitation I also remember Bristol (possibly Bristol And Avon) water being tbe first company to be given the right to fit water meters to every property whether you wanted one or not, saying this would cut down usage. It succeeded beyond the company’s wildest dreams. Water usage fell by almost 30%, ‘forcing the company to double its prices’ the next year, and the next I remember Welsh Water abandoning interest in water quality and going into the business of acquiring and building upmarket hotels on its rural estate largely acquired by compulsory purchase for reservoir building And i recall stretches of the River Test drying up because water companies sunk boreholes into the aquefers and drained the water table.
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Post by johnofgwent on Apr 1, 2024 10:25:31 GMT
Welsh Water was a privatised company which went bust after choosing to ignore what it was there fore and expand into all sorts
The name was taken over by a bunch of shysters called united utilities
Their so called not for profit model is nothing of the sort
For water companies, i think the sort of renationalisation with zero compensation to all the scum who consider water a commodity for profit is the only way to go. Because having seen the ideology inside the monster, you quickly realise tere is only one answer
I was under the impression that Welsh Water or 'Glas Cymru' is run as a not-for-profit company? To be honest i’ve never heard of ‘GLAS Cymru’ the last bill i recall calked them Dwr Cymru which is the translation for Welsh Water i will have to have a look at whatever came last month. The old company went bust about the year 2000 after spectacularly losing a contract to expand into some unrelated business, i don’t recall the details, i do remember the contract not being renewed and my getting a new one to design the rollout of a capacity upgrade for Northern Ireland Electricity from a firm in Camberley for double the hourly rate. My team’s permanent employees were redistributed around the group but all had left inside a year. A relative of my wife’s emigrated to Australia as part of Welsh Water’s expansion plans for its business services arm ‘Hyder Business Services’. Not sure what he did when the firm went bust, but it amused me to see its website taken over and used to offer online sales of precursor materials required for methamphetamine and explosive manufacture, amongst others. At the time i recall i was after some less controversial chemicals for use in cleaning up saltwater tarnished scuba kit and i used the website to order some. The material arrived without obvious fuss. It would be a lie to say i was not tempted to go back and order a 25 kilo drum of ephedrine plus some red phosphorus and iodine but i thought better of it….
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 1, 2024 10:32:43 GMT
Welsh Water and Scottish Water seem to be working OK, could this be because they're not owned by foreign interests? I don't know about Scottish water, but Welsh Water In 2022, Welsh Water was responsible for 89 sewage pollution incidents. Out of these, five were classified as having a high or significant impact12. The company’s environmental performance declined, leading to a downgrade in its rating from three stars to two stars, indicating that it “requires improvement” according to Natural Resources Wales (NRW)1. Additionally, Welsh Water released sewage into rivers, lakes, and the sea around Wales for nearly 600,000 hours last year, accounting for more than 25% of all discharges into waterways across Wales and England. The latest figures also reveal over 83,000 spills in 2022, with 77,000 of them being classified as "significant"3. They are having to spend 3.5 Billion to try and address the same problems we have in England Well to be fair H, I didn't say Welsh Water were perfect, I think JoG might have had something to say about that lol. But Welsh Water is, I believe, run on a not-for-profit basis which is how it should be. It's immoral that every time you turn the tap on you're generating profit for foreign shareholders. The water industry should be owned by the government, the British government btw, not foreign governments.
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Post by Handyman on Apr 1, 2024 10:38:59 GMT
I don't know about Scottish water, but Welsh Water In 2022, Welsh Water was responsible for 89 sewage pollution incidents. Out of these, five were classified as having a high or significant impact12. The company’s environmental performance declined, leading to a downgrade in its rating from three stars to two stars, indicating that it “requires improvement” according to Natural Resources Wales (NRW)1. Additionally, Welsh Water released sewage into rivers, lakes, and the sea around Wales for nearly 600,000 hours last year, accounting for more than 25% of all discharges into waterways across Wales and England. The latest figures also reveal over 83,000 spills in 2022, with 77,000 of them being classified as "significant"3. They are having to spend 3.5 Billion to try and address the same problems we have in England Well to be fair H, I didn't say Welsh Water were perfect, I think JoG might have had something to say about that lol. But Welsh Water is, I believe, run on a not-for-profit basis which is how it should be. It's immoral that every time you turn the tap on you're generating profit for foreign shareholders. The water industry should be owned by the government, the British government btw, not foreign governments. It won't bother me in two weeks time , but IMHO if it is renationalised the taxpayers will have to fund all the vehicles the Water Board will need, work clothes, tools , plant, and wages, news pipes, new treatment plants , more reservoirs etc, plus of course pay for the water IMHO a Catch 22
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Post by bancroft on Apr 1, 2024 10:39:26 GMT
I don't like it one bit yet lets make it clear unless A or B gets fixed within 18 months they lose their license. You mentioned attacks on power stations, could you elaborate?.. Not publicly because it is not in the public domain it would have been like an episode of spooks to take out the dark actors. The problem is when groups get too big some employ agent provocateurs when their income stream is threatened. The same with the mafia or your local bully you impact their business they will try and get revenge.
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 1, 2024 10:39:27 GMT
Bancroft, you should read what Richard Murphy has to say, it's quite interesting. See OP. Richard Murphy is an imbecile whose economic ideas were even too daft for the SNP.. LOL. Richard Murphy is a professor of accounting practice, an economist, and a chartered accountant. Pacifico, you may not agree with him politically, but to call him an 'imbecile' is clearly nonsense.
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 1, 2024 10:55:18 GMT
The reason that Thames has put £500 million of investment on hold is that OFWAT are refusing to allow them to raise prices. The private sector are not going to invest if there is no return. Thames has £16 Billion in borrowing. Maybe if they invested that rather than pissing it down the drain in unsustainable and unwarranted Share Dividends and Exec Remuneration Packages they would a) actually deliver a better service, b) not routinely break the law, and c) have no need to increase bills. Since Privatisation Consumer Bills have more than paid for the levels of Investment seen in the industry. Since Privatisation the Water Industry has paid out MORE in dividends than it has invested, and it has paid more in dividends than it has borrowed. They are borrowing to artificially inflate Share Dividends and so drive up their share price It is a HUGE fucking SCAM. All The Best How much have they invested?
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 1, 2024 10:57:54 GMT
Richard Murphy is an imbecile whose economic ideas were even too daft for the SNP.. LOL. Richard Murphy is a professor of accounting practice, an economist, and a chartered accountant. Pacifico, you may not agree with him politically, but to call him an 'imbecile' is clearly nonsense. He is not an economist - he is an accountant who does not practice anymore. he has spent the last 20 years promoting the Magic Money Theory - something that no real economist believes has a hope of ever working. Total imbecile.
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 1, 2024 11:03:29 GMT
Thames has £16 Billion in borrowing. Maybe if they invested that rather than pissing it down the drain in unsustainable and unwarranted Share Dividends and Exec Remuneration Packages they would a) actually deliver a better service, b) not routinely break the law, and c) have no need to increase bills. Since Privatisation Consumer Bills have more than paid for the levels of Investment seen in the industry. Since Privatisation the Water Industry has paid out MORE in dividends than it has invested, and it has paid more in dividends than it has borrowed. They are borrowing to artificially inflate Share Dividends and so drive up their share price It is a HUGE fucking SCAM. All The Best How much have they invested? Would have to go back through some links and post on other sites. It is all out there in the public domain though: since privatisation Consumer Bills have more than covered investment. Much of the impetus for increasing consumer bills is from the excessive costs of servicing unsustainable debt - that should be the shareholders' problem, not the consumer's. All The Best
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