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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 26, 2024 16:42:48 GMT
It's not as though the Chinese don't have previous form, is it? What a dumb comment.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 26, 2024 17:19:22 GMT
What it means is that the Conservatives are fishing for votes . The Government in the course of its daily business would sanction individuals and request ambassadors to attend talks . Its only news when the government wants it to be news and It seems they need it to be news this week It's not their decision, but just they carry out US orders and have just got an order to fire this bullshit off in tandem with Washington so it sounds believable to the terminally stupid. IDS and a few others are traitors of our country and will plough the bullshit out as and when the US pays them to do so. They work for shady think tank type arrangements. Tugendhat is another of the traitors.
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 27, 2024 7:34:03 GMT
It's not as though the Chinese don't have previous form, is it? What a dumb comment. Does that mean you deny that the Chinese have a reputation for industrial and military espionage as well as IP theft on a grand scale?
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 27, 2024 11:53:57 GMT
Does that mean you deny that the Chinese have a reputation for industrial and military espionage as well as IP theft on a grand scale? Yes.
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 28, 2024 8:11:30 GMT
Where to start? LOL.
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 28, 2024 8:22:33 GMT
An oldie but goodie, from an article in Wired Magazine about the history of undersea cable-laying, slack control, Kelvin's catenary curves and so on. "...Bert Porter, a Cable & Wireless cable-laying veteran who is now a freelancer, was beachmaster for the Tong Fuk lay. He was on a ship that laid a cable from Hong Kong to Singapore during the late 1960s. Along the way they passed south of Lan Tao Island, and so the view from Tong Fuk Beach is a trip down memory lane for him. "The repeater spacing was about 18 miles," he says, "and so the first repeater went into the water right out there. Then, a few days later, the cable suddenly tested broken." In other words, the shore station in Hong Kong had lost contact with the equipment on board Porter's cable ship. In such cases it's easy to figure out roughly where the break occurred - by measuring the resistance in the cable's conductors - and they knew it had to be somewhere in the vicinity of the first repeater. "So we backtracked, pulling up cable, and when we got right out there," he waves his hand out over the bay, "we discovered that the repeater had simply been chopped out." He holds his hands up parallel, like twin blades. "Apparently the Chinese were curious about our repeaters, so they thought they'd come out and get one." Nothing's changed as far as Chinese thievery is concerned.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 28, 2024 11:18:52 GMT
The truth would be a good place.
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 28, 2024 13:09:13 GMT
Nothing I post here about China's economic and industrial espionage or its theft of intellectual property is untrue. I invite you to provide evidence to the contrary if you can find any. Continuing the theme, another classic instance this time from Der Spiegel. "...So now we come to another matter: the illegal methods of transferring knowledge, against which the West has been excruciatingly slow to face up to. Among young Chinese engineers the motto is “Better try than buy”. China is today the undisputed homeland of product piracy. In Shenzhen, a firm sprung up [Huawei, Ed.]which offered for sale network switches and routers which ran a clone (actually, as was later proven a stolen direct copy) of Cisco Systems’ crown jewel, its Internetworking Operating System, the networking world's equivalent of Microsoft Windows. In Inner Mongolia a knock-off of Procter & Gamble’s ‘Head and Shoulders’ was manufactured. Harry Potter stories circulated not only as pirated copies of the British originals, but the image of the author herself was appended. A Chinese Harry Potter was even brought to life. Funny business attended also the construction of the state-of-the-art maglev rail system in Shanghai. ThyssenKrupp and Siemens, the German companies which invented and patented the technology, were pestered by their Chinese ‘partners’ from the outset to disclose to them the innermost secret workings of the highly-sophisticated drive- and transmission-systems. The Germans, for once, declined and so the Chinese decided to conduct their own surreptitious investigation. One November night in 2004, a group of Chinese engineers infiltrated a maintenance depot in order to examine in detail the systems. They were clandestinely filmed in the act, following which the CEO of Shanghai-Transrapid, Wu Xiangming, was forced to get involved. He subsequently advised his German Consortium-Partners that the night-time operation was completely legitimate, since it served in the interest of advancing ‘Chinese R&D’. In this way the Chinese enliven the core of their own national economy using an intellectual energy produced elsewhere. They are buying time through the acquisition of western firms. But more importantly, they are stealing time through the cost-free snaffling of what others have devised elsewhere." And they're still at it. Germany: Espionage from the EastAs this article notes, an objective of the regime is 'control of the diaspora', that is the tens and hundreds of thousands of Chinese emigrants and students now resident in the West: "...China’s current ruler Xi Jinping has an army of spies at his disposal. With hundreds of thousands of fulltime agents, his secret service apparatus is "almost certainly the largest in the world,” the Intelligence and Security Committee of the British parliament has said. That number is apparently augmented by thousands upon thousands of Chinese expatriates, guest researchers, students and businesspeople who provide their services in sending information back home – or who are forced into spying by the Chinese intelligence authorities. A secret service law that went into effect in 2017 stipulates that "any organization or citizen shall support, assist and cooperate with state intelligence work, according to the law.” That means that the state can require any Chinese citizen or company to cooperate with the intelligence services. It is essentially a license for unlimited spying. Not every student from China, of course, is a spy. Yet state security officials in Bavaria have warned against naivete. They are particularly concerned about the grants awarded by the state-run China Scholarship Council (CSC), which has sent around 5,000 undergrad and graduate students to Germany. Participants must declare their allegiance to China and the Communist Party in writing, stay in regular contact with the embassy and follow any instructions they receive."
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 29, 2024 22:13:37 GMT
Nothing I post here about China's economic and industrial espionage or its theft of intellectual property is untrue. I invite you to provide evidence to the contrary if you can find any. Continuing the theme, another classic instance this time from Der Spiegel. "...So now we come to another matter: the illegal methods of transferring knowledge, against which the West has been excruciatingly slow to face up to. Among young Chinese engineers the motto is “Better try than buy”. China is today the undisputed homeland of product piracy. In Shenzhen, a firm sprung up [Huawei, Ed.]which offered for sale network switches and routers which ran a clone (actually, as was later proven a stolen direct copy) of Cisco Systems’ crown jewel, its Internetworking Operating System, the networking world's equivalent of Microsoft Windows. In Inner Mongolia a knock-off of Procter & Gamble’s ‘Head and Shoulders’ was manufactured. Harry Potter stories circulated not only as pirated copies of the British originals, but the image of the author herself was appended. A Chinese Harry Potter was even brought to life. Funny business attended also the construction of the state-of-the-art maglev rail system in Shanghai. ThyssenKrupp and Siemens, the German companies which invented and patented the technology, were pestered by their Chinese ‘partners’ from the outset to disclose to them the innermost secret workings of the highly-sophisticated drive- and transmission-systems. The Germans, for once, declined and so the Chinese decided to conduct their own surreptitious investigation. One November night in 2004, a group of Chinese engineers infiltrated a maintenance depot in order to examine in detail the systems. They were clandestinely filmed in the act, following which the CEO of Shanghai-Transrapid, Wu Xiangming, was forced to get involved. He subsequently advised his German Consortium-Partners that the night-time operation was completely legitimate, since it served in the interest of advancing ‘Chinese R&D’. In this way the Chinese enliven the core of their own national economy using an intellectual energy produced elsewhere. They are buying time through the acquisition of western firms. But more importantly, they are stealing time through the cost-free snaffling of what others have devised elsewhere." And they're still at it. Germany: Espionage from the EastAs this article notes, an objective of the regime is 'control of the diaspora', that is the tens and hundreds of thousands of Chinese emigrants and students now resident in the West: "...China’s current ruler Xi Jinping has an army of spies at his disposal. With hundreds of thousands of fulltime agents, his secret service apparatus is "almost certainly the largest in the world,” the Intelligence and Security Committee of the British parliament has said. That number is apparently augmented by thousands upon thousands of Chinese expatriates, guest researchers, students and businesspeople who provide their services in sending information back home – or who are forced into spying by the Chinese intelligence authorities. A secret service law that went into effect in 2017 stipulates that "any organization or citizen shall support, assist and cooperate with state intelligence work, according to the law.” That means that the state can require any Chinese citizen or company to cooperate with the intelligence services. It is essentially a license for unlimited spying. Not every student from China, of course, is a spy. Yet state security officials in Bavaria have warned against naivete. They are particularly concerned about the grants awarded by the state-run China Scholarship Council (CSC), which has sent around 5,000 undergrad and graduate students to Germany. Participants must declare their allegiance to China and the Communist Party in writing, stay in regular contact with the embassy and follow any instructions they receive." Not every student from China, of course. Oh well that's generous!
A more balanced account than Der bullshitter is in wiki:
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 30, 2024 10:00:48 GMT
Despite the Baron's urgent need to exonerate Huawei and its thievery of Cisco's IOS they all come to nought as even his carefully curated kut-n-paste fails to do the trick. I was at Cisco at the time of the heist and can tell you there is much more to this saga of naked pillage than the editors at Wikipedia are letting on. Suffice to say it all only reinforced the ancient Silly Valley adage that if you employ ethnic Chinese - even if citizens or green card holders - expect to find your trade secrets turning up in China sooner rather than later, assuming they're not already there. In the meantime, the emperor's naked army marches on. MI5 head warns of 'epic scale' of Chinese espionage
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 30, 2024 11:41:06 GMT
Despite the Baron's urgent need to exonerate Huawei and its thievery of Cisco's IOS they all come to nought as even his carefully curated kut-n-paste fails to do the trick. I was at Cisco at the time of the heist and can tell you there is much more to this saga of naked pillage than the editors at Wikipedia are letting on. Suffice to say it all only reinforced the ancient Silly Valley adage that if you employ ethnic Chinese - even if citizens or green card holders - expect to find your trade secrets turning up in China sooner rather than later, assuming they're not already there. In the meantime, the emperor's naked army marches on. MI5 head warns of 'epic scale' of Chinese espionageIf there was a lot more to it and you wont tell us what, I have to conclude that there is not a lot more to it. Do let us know anything you saw though that is unpublished. My view as far as i know from what I have seen is they probably did copy some files but it seems pretty trivial.
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 30, 2024 12:41:21 GMT
It's unclear why you continue to dwell on an episode more than twenty years old when even more egregious incidents are still continuing even today.
Much of the detail about the Huawei theft is concealed by non-disclosure agreements so many of the people involved (including me) are prevented from disclosing what they know. Suffice to say, it was much more than 'copying some files'. What basically happened is that some Chinese nationals working at Cisco opened a trapdoor into the engineering servers and some other Chinese, ostensibly participating in a training course at the San Jose training center, used this access from inside the firewall to download all the source code for IOS and other software for Cisco's routers and switches. Many gigabytes of data, not just a few files.
I was an instructor and course designer in the training center at the time and well remember the stringent new security protocols introduced following this affair. Suffice to say Cisco stopped hiring H1Bs from China.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 30, 2024 14:22:17 GMT
It's unclear why you continue to dwell on an episode more than twenty years old when even more egregious incidents are still continuing even today. Much of the detail about the Huawei theft is concealed by non-disclosure agreements so many of the people involved (including me) are prevented from disclosing what they know. Suffice to say, it was much more than 'copying some files'. What basically happened is that some Chinese nationals working at Cisco opened a trapdoor into the engineering servers and some other Chinese, ostensibly participating in a training course at the San Jose training center, used this access from inside the firewall to download all the source code for IOS and other software for Cisco's routers and switches. Many gigabytes of data, not just a few files. I was an instructor and course designer in the training center at the time and well remember the stringent new security protocols introduced following this affair. Suffice to say Cisco stopped hiring H1Bs from China. Right, now I get you. I can see something like that happening. Hacking is a hobby to many, and many of those hackers live in the US, but like it is global and conducted from groups from internet chat forums and the like. It could just have been since Huawei employs so many technologists that they overlooked the reliability of one or two. It seems like the firm tried to patch things up with Cisco. They probably dealt with it like adults and said sorry and bunged them some compensation. Shit happens, but like you say, partly it is the fault of such weak security. The role of weak security was legendary at that time. Of all people Cisco should have known better, especially give their role in networking products. The internet was the wild west back then.
I only mention this case because you brought it up. It is typical when someone is trying to knock me down on my views of China that they have a whole list of this and that press claims. Each one take a fair bit of examination. I'm lazy so if presented with so much to deal with I'll probably just deal with the first one. Because similar lists appear regularly in reply to my comments, picking the first one each time should mean in time I've covered the lot!
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