|
|
Post by Pacifico on Feb 29, 2024 22:38:08 GMT
Nothing needs to be said, a picture speaks a thousand words, Reform are a party of outraged middle class Gammons mixed in with a few uneducated working class racists. Or as David Cameron once called UKIP members "closet racists and swivel eyed loons" indeed - and yet, under a fair election system, UKIP got more support than Labour.. who speaks for the people? (Labour came third) |
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Mar 1, 2024 1:44:33 GMT
Nothing needs to be said, a picture speaks a thousand words, Reform are a party of outraged middle class Gammons mixed in with a few uneducated working class racists. Or as David Cameron once called UKIP members "closet racists and swivel eyed loons" indeed - and yet, under a fair election system, UKIP got more support than Labour.. who speaks for the people? (Labour came third) Where do you get that from ? Several. Times when people on.here who. Supports the pr system. I've shown them A elecrol reform study from 2919 based on the STV system Shows that PR voting favours the main partiesbr] Conservative 312 -53 Labour 221 +18 Liberal Democrat 59 + [br Plaid Cymru 5 +1 Brexit Party 3 +3 Green Party 2 +1 Northern Ireland Parties 18 18 Total 650 |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Mar 1, 2024 7:43:21 GMT
I'm talking about real elections - not fantasy forecasts.
|
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Mar 1, 2024 8:40:43 GMT
I'm talking about real elections - not fantasy forecasts. 0 That was after 2019 election and that was the biggest turnout for election for a while . So reform in reality hasn't a cat in heLl chance. Like I said where did you get more ukop would of got more Seats than labour or was that made up. In your head . |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Mar 1, 2024 11:45:45 GMT
I'm talking about real elections - not fantasy forecasts. 0 That was after 2019 election and that was the biggest turnout for election for a while . So reform in reality hasn't a cat in heLl chance. Like I said where did you get more ukop would of got more Seats than labour or was that made up. In your head . That was the result when we had elections held under PR. |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Mar 1, 2024 14:40:14 GMT
I'm talking about real elections - not fantasy forecasts. I wonder. You see the mention of Plaid and The Brexit Party suggests those figures mught have been the Welsh Assembly, where the d’Hondt system, which is NOT true PR, allocated 20 regional seats in blocks of 4 across 5 voting regions, according to regional vote divided by one mire than total seats held. In the 2011 election the meltdown of lib dem constituency votes in the wake of Cleggs 2010 support of the tories meant their sizeable vote numbers in the regional contest gave them regional seats, ditto plaid. Tbe D’Hondt system merely levels out the big four. Had all 20 seats been subjected to a true PR assessment across the whole of Wales, lots more tories, a Trades Union Communist and I myself would all be assembly members, although internal party shenanigans would have seen my surprise resignation and replacement a week later But it is indeed true that the d’Hondt system merely boosts existing opposition numbers rather than truly representing support And in 2011 UKIP’s man got less than half the votes i did….. |
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 1, 2024 15:02:20 GMT
I'm talking about real elections - not fantasy forecasts. 0 That was after 2019 election and that was the biggest turnout for election for a while . So reform in reality hasn't a cat in heLl chance. Like I said where did you get more ukop would of got more Seats than labour or was that made up. In your head . The effect Reform are having now is a very powerful one. They pushed up to 10% a while back and now it is looking more like 13%. The problem is the election calculus, because each point Reform rises by means scores more lost Con seats. As I have been saying for a while on here, it is around the 15% mark where interesting things happen politically. 5% means they can be completely ignored and laughed at, but at 15% people see they are having real political effect, so that increases the point of voting for them. They can start to influence real policy in the UK leading to real changes to the country. The difference though between say Reform and Liberal is the Liberals are not popular across the country. Liberals work on a particular area and intensivly fire resources at a few seats they could win, so they might score a lower percentage but pick up a good few seats. |
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Mar 1, 2024 15:15:33 GMT
0 That was after 2019 election and that was the biggest turnout for election for a while . So reform in reality hasn't a cat in heLl chance. Like I said where did you get more ukop would of got more Seats than labour or was that made up. In your head . The effect Reform are having now is a very powerful one. They pushed up to 10% a while back and now it is looking more like 13%. The problem is the election calculus, because each point Reform rises by means scores more lost Con seats. As I have been saying for a while on here, it is around the 15% mark where interesting things happen politically. 5% means they can be completely ignored and laughed at, but at 15% people see they are having real political effect, so that increases the point of voting for them. They can start to influence real policy in the UK leading to real changes to the country. The difference though between say Reform and Liberal is the Liberals are not popular across the country. Liberals work on a particular area and intensivly fire resources at a few seats they could win, so they might score a lower percentage but pick up a good few seats. That's interesting view are you saying them that vote reform increase the Chance of labour winning the Election Good I Changed my view on them . And if you think the Conservative will win more votes moving to the far right Look again how well Reform did in Rochdale and in the tory heartland Wellingborough and the other place failed to win a seat .Because the tory faithful didn't turn up to vote them |
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 1, 2024 15:34:57 GMT
The effect Reform are having now is a very powerful one. They pushed up to 10% a while back and now it is looking more like 13%. The problem is the election calculus, because each point Reform rises by means scores more lost Con seats. As I have been saying for a while on here, it is around the 15% mark where interesting things happen politically. 5% means they can be completely ignored and laughed at, but at 15% people see they are having real political effect, so that increases the point of voting for them. They can start to influence real policy in the UK leading to real changes to the country. The difference though between say Reform and Liberal is the Liberals are not popular across the country. Liberals work on a particular area and intensivly fire resources at a few seats they could win, so they might score a lower percentage but pick up a good few seats. That's interesting view are you saying them that vote reform increase the Chance of labour winning the Election Good I Changed my view on them . And if you think the Conservative will win more votes moving to the far right Look again how well Reform did in Rochdale and in the tory heartland Wellingborough and the other place failed to win a seat .Because the tory faithful didn't turn up to vote them It's a perception thing. The Brexit Party, what with Farage and all looked a bit daft. If Reform can pass off as serious businessmen who will revive the fortunes of the country then I can see many diehard Tories switch. It may even totally flip, as per as soon as Reform look stronger than the Tories the rest will jump on thinking this is the main body of right-wing who can win. Anyhow for now it seems to have put the Tories into a position like a bad endgame of chess where whichever move you make it won't help you much and could make things worse. They have blown their credibility. |
|
