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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 12, 2024 14:01:51 GMT
According to a report in the Guardian NHS England has almost 1.3 million staff (FTE) of which 20.4% are non-UK nationals. This is evidently the highest level since records began in 2009.
30% of nurses and 36% of doctors are foreign nationals, with Indians being the largest nationality in both cases.
Per the last census the number of foreign-born residents in England (18%) was comparably close to their representation in the NHS workforce. Given the record net migration since the census the numbers will be even closer now.
Could there be a correlation between the two? In other words, if the foreign-born population were to fall to zero would there still be a need for so many foreign workers in NHS?
The government is apparently commited to double the number of training places for nurses and increase the number of trainee doctors by 50% by 2031. In the event it succeeds the obvious corollary will be that the NHS should need fewer foreigners. Or will the more likely outcome be that more British-trained medical staff will find more lucrative careers elsewhere and the NHS will continue to import ever-larger numbers of medical workers from developing countries?
I know which one my money will be on. |
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Post by patman post on Feb 12, 2024 14:12:42 GMT
If UK-trained doctors and nurses are increasingly leaving to take up better paid and more attractive lifestyles abroad, wouldn't the UK be better just concentrating on bringing in medical staff and migrants from overseas for training?
Or should it perhaps consider improving pay and working conditions for medical staff in the NHS...?
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 12, 2024 14:18:50 GMT
That's one part of the puzzle. The other is to what extent is the need for foreign workers in the NHS driven by the presence of large numbers of foreign residents?
In brief, if the foreigner residents weren't here would we still need as many foreign workers? Or indeed any at all?
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 12, 2024 14:41:26 GMT
If UK-trained doctors and nurses are increasingly leaving to take up better paid and more attractive lifestyles abroad, wouldn't the UK be better just concentrating on bringing in medical staff and migrants from overseas for training? Or should it perhaps consider improving pay and working conditions for medical staff in the NHS...? It may help if the woke NHS, like the woke MoD, did not recruit directly from the rest of the world while ignoring white British applicants because they do not meet woke diversity criteria. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 12, 2024 15:10:58 GMT
If UK-trained doctors and nurses are increasingly leaving to take up better paid and more attractive lifestyles abroad, wouldn't the UK be better just concentrating on bringing in medical staff and migrants from overseas for training? Or should it perhaps consider improving pay and working conditions for medical staff in the NHS...? It may help if the woke NHS, like the woke MoD, did not recruit directly from the rest of the world while ignoring white British applicants because they do not meet woke diversity criteria. NHS spends £40m a year on 800 'diversity officers' as furious campaigners argue money could be spent on extra 1,200 nurses as they demand resources focus on frontline services......
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Post by sandypine on Feb 12, 2024 16:51:09 GMT
It may help if the woke NHS, like the woke MoD, did not recruit directly from the rest of the world while ignoring white British applicants because they do not meet woke diversity criteria. NHS spends £40m a year on 800 'diversity officers' as furious campaigners argue money could be spent on extra 1,200 nurses as they demand resources focus on frontline services......
They are legally obliged to as outlined in the Equality Duty which is a Public Sector duty as defined in the Equality Act 2010. |
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Post by patman post on Feb 12, 2024 20:42:13 GMT
If UK-trained doctors and nurses are increasingly leaving to take up better paid and more attractive lifestyles abroad, wouldn't the UK be better just concentrating on bringing in medical staff and migrants from overseas for training? Or should it perhaps consider improving pay and working conditions for medical staff in the NHS...? It may help if the woke NHS, like the woke MoD, did not recruit directly from the rest of the world while ignoring white British applicants because they do not meet woke diversity criteria. But medical staff are deserting UK shores in droves — I’m aware the government cannot make the weather better — and it’s also finding it difficult to clean up British shores — but if it matched pay in Australia, Canada, the US, etc, that might stem the outflow and reduce the need for an influx from overseas… |
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Post by sandypine on Feb 12, 2024 20:57:33 GMT
It may help if the woke NHS, like the woke MoD, did not recruit directly from the rest of the world while ignoring white British applicants because they do not meet woke diversity criteria. But medical staff are deserting UK shores in droves — I’m aware the government cannot make the weather better — and it’s also finding it difficult to clean up British shores — but if it matched pay in Australia, Canada, the US, etc, that might stem the outflow and reduce the need for an influx from overseas… Why is the influx from overseas not going to the countries you mention above making it more difficult for British workers to secure those positions. If there are staff trained worldwide why the merry go round of British staff leaving to be replaced by foreign staff? Something makes little sense. |
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Post by Dogburger on Feb 12, 2024 22:33:01 GMT
But medical staff are deserting UK shores in droves — I’m aware the government cannot make the weather better — and it’s also finding it difficult to clean up British shores — but if it matched pay in Australia, Canada, the US, etc, that might stem the outflow and reduce the need for an influx from overseas… Why is the influx from overseas not going to the countries you mention above making it more difficult for British workers to secure those positions. If there are staff trained worldwide why the merry go round of British staff leaving to be replaced by foreign staff? Something makes little sense. Because those countries want people that integrate into the resident population along with qualifications that they deem acceptable . |
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Post by buccaneer on Feb 13, 2024 5:55:33 GMT
It may help if the woke NHS, like the woke MoD, did not recruit directly from the rest of the world while ignoring white British applicants because they do not meet woke diversity criteria. But medical staff are deserting UK shores in droves — I’m aware the government cannot make the weather better — and it’s also finding it difficult to clean up British shores — but if it matched pay in Australia, Canada, the US, etc, that might stem the outflow and reduce the need for an influx from overseas… I don't think they can match the pay in such places, not when they're splashing 40 million pounds a year on diversity officers. Looks like the government went broke for woke and now can't afford to pay for frontline personnel. It seems they would rather have cheaper frontline imports, so their diversity officers will be run off their feet. And I don't appreciate my taxes going up to pay for this. Trim the fat first; diversity officers, and middle-management bureaucracy. Stop robbing Peter to pay Paul under this woke bureaucracy and then I'd be more than content to see my taxes rise to pay for more doctors and nurses. |
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Post by sandypine on Feb 13, 2024 8:14:26 GMT
Why is the influx from overseas not going to the countries you mention above making it more difficult for British workers to secure those positions. If there are staff trained worldwide why the merry go round of British staff leaving to be replaced by foreign staff? Something makes little sense. Because those countries want people that integrate into the resident population along with qualifications that they deem acceptable . So just to be clear they are considering ethnicity/Nationality and have suspicions as regards the qualifications from some countries. |
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Post by sandypine on Feb 13, 2024 8:18:02 GMT
But medical staff are deserting UK shores in droves — I’m aware the government cannot make the weather better — and it’s also finding it difficult to clean up British shores — but if it matched pay in Australia, Canada, the US, etc, that might stem the outflow and reduce the need for an influx from overseas… I don't think they can match the pay in such places, not when they're splashing 40 million pounds a year on diversity officers. Looks like the government went broke for woke and now can't afford to pay for frontline personnel. It seems they would rather have cheaper frontline imports, so their diversity officers will be run off their feet. And I don't appreciate my taxes going up to pay for this. Trim the fat first; diversity officers, and middle-management bureaucracy. Stop robbing Peter to pay Paul under this woke bureaucracy and then I'd be more than content to see my taxes rise to pay for more doctors and nurses. To stop them splashing money on diversity officers parliament would have to change the law first and there seems a marked reluctance to do that. Woke is enshrined in law. |
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Post by Handyman on Feb 13, 2024 9:01:54 GMT
Because those countries want people that integrate into the resident population along with qualifications that they deem acceptable . So just to be clear they are considering ethnicity/Nationality and have suspicions as regards the qualifications from some countries. My wife has been a Nurse for almost 30 years, she was worked with many different nationalities over the years and still does , if Nursing Staff Doctors Surgeons from outside the of the UK come here to work within the NHS or Private Hospitals, they have to have checkable medical qualifications to meet the standard required here if not they cannot work here in the UK. |
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Post by Dogburger on Feb 13, 2024 9:21:45 GMT
Because those countries want people that integrate into the resident population along with qualifications that they deem acceptable . So just to be clear they are considering ethnicity/Nationality and have suspicions as regards the qualifications from some countries. Yes Looking at the Australia immigration where a lot of our health care workers go to British qualifications both educational and medical (along with New Zealand, Canada ,Ireland and the USA ) are accepted . All others need to be assessed which can take months if not years before they can work in Australian health care . |
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 13, 2024 9:26:41 GMT
It may help if the woke NHS, like the woke MoD, did not recruit directly from the rest of the world while ignoring white British applicants because they do not meet woke diversity criteria. But medical staff are deserting UK shores in droves — I’m aware the government cannot make the weather better — and it’s also finding it difficult to clean up British shores — but if it matched pay in Australia, Canada, the US, etc, that might stem the outflow and reduce the need for an influx from overseas… That doesn't alter what I said above. |
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