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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 11, 2022 22:21:51 GMT
Surely you're not suggesting that Thatcher's embrace of supply-side economics was something of her own invention?
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 11, 2022 22:26:16 GMT
Surely you're not suggesting that Thatcher's embrace of supply-side economics was something of her own invention? No senior men in the HoC were advocating it. Heath lost the leadership election because he was promising more of the same. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 11, 2022 22:27:56 GMT
Here's an example of the kind of thinking we get. I got this hot off Radio 4 today, so I'm hardly cherry picking the entire history of their thoughts, but this one really got me. Lets start with a political problem. The problem, as it is every day on Radio 4, is the world will warm up if we keep on polluting the atmosphere with greenhouse gasses. We do this by burning hydrocarbons as you are well aware after hearing it millions of times. Now what's the solution? According to this woman it is that we should live in communes. Instead of living with your family as we do in this country, the idea is a commune of some 30 or so people will live together sharing facilities. After stating this she then went on to analyse the pros and cons and came up with the possibility that some people might not get on with others quite so well as other people. Hmm who would have thought it. We concluded this brainwave with a view that people will find ways to get on. Anyway, to give her her due, she did explain it calmly. Here's a little political interview with one you may well not get on so well with. www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVJJRl3eVn8Both interviews were what I simply stumbled upon today. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 11, 2022 23:01:53 GMT
The Baron may have a point though. As of now more than a third of MPs - 225 in total - are female. Can anyone make a case that this has enhanced the effectiveness of Parliament? And if so, how?
Perhaps it's misogenystic [sic] to ask but what the heck.
I'll have a bash. If we hadn't had the first woman PM in 1979 we would have continued the managed decline of the economy that all the male leadership PM's had signed up to since 1945. The alternative in 1979 was Callaghan who promised to continue the failed policies of the 60's and 70's. You make a good point and this is central to feminist argument that the males have failed. However, to continue, they then say that we would be better off with women for a change (vote for change) but this is a non sequitur. Anyway, Thatcher was a strange one. We've not seen the likes of her since, and the problem here is the "regression to mean" where when we get an exception we often think that establishes the new rule, but the likelihood is the next time it will be worse. The next one was indeed worse and her name was May. After that we got worse again with Truss. The concern is what is emerging in the pipeline. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 11, 2022 23:06:47 GMT
Surely you're not suggesting that Thatcher's embrace of supply-side economics was something of her own invention? No senior men in the HoC were advocating it. Heath lost the leadership election because he was promising more of the same. I was thinking more of her economic mentors like Arthur Seldon, Friedrich Hayek, Milton Friedman, Keith Joseph and yes, Enoch Powell too. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 12, 2022 7:57:37 GMT
No senior men in the HoC were advocating it. Heath lost the leadership election because he was promising more of the same. I was thinking more of her economic mentors like Arthur Seldon, Friedrich Hayek, Milton Friedman, Keith Joseph and yes, Enoch Powell too. Oh fair enough - the whole economic philosophy was created by men (and possibly Ayn Rand). But to enact that philosophy it took a political outsider. |
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Post by Steve on Nov 12, 2022 11:13:01 GMT
I was thinking more of her economic mentors like Arthur Seldon, Friedrich Hayek, Milton Friedman, Keith Joseph and yes, Enoch Powell too. Oh fair enough - the whole economic philosophy was created by men (and possibly Ayn Rand). But to enact that philosophy it took a political outsider. Thatcher was also a follower of that (IMHO brilliant philosopher) Karl Popper. Didn't like her one bit but like all strong democratic leaders, she was smart enough to consult and read widely and then act. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 12, 2022 12:07:56 GMT
I was thinking more of her economic mentors like Arthur Seldon, Friedrich Hayek, Milton Friedman, Keith Joseph and yes, Enoch Powell too. Oh fair enough - the whole economic philosophy was created by men (and possibly Ayn Rand). But to enact that philosophy it took a political outsider. It did indeed but one swallow does not make a summer. They were wrong, she was right. Please notice one other big difference with Thatcher was she was a scientist. Not only that but she was what they call a hard scientist, not a social wishy washy "engineer". She did chemistry, and right now China's leader is riding on a high with a third term and he did chemical engineering. Hmm, do we have a trend forming here? Hard science needs logic. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 14, 2022 17:29:02 GMT
The Baron may have a point though. As of now more than a third of MPs - 225 in total - are female. Can anyone make a case that this has enhanced the effectiveness of Parliament? And if so, how?
Perhaps it's misogenystic [sic] to ask but what the heck.
That document, apparently funded by the electoral commission but seemingly authored by a group of people the commission wish to distance themselves from, suggest there is an activism gap, and an engagement gap, between men and women when it comes to political matters, and I take it the endless attempts by both main parties to throw men off selection lists are a manifestation of party belief in the concept that having more women in positions of power may persuade more women voters to engage in politics. I don’t see it myself. Not least because the more particularly labour tried to throw men out, the less and less voter turnout … |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 14, 2022 17:41:36 GMT
The Baron may have a point though. As of now more than a third of MPs - 225 in total - are female. Can anyone make a case that this has enhanced the effectiveness of Parliament? And if so, how?
Perhaps it's misogenystic [sic] to ask but what the heck.
That document, apparently funded by the electoral commission but seemingly authored by a group of people the commission wish to distance themselves from, suggest there is an activism gap, and an engagement gap, between men and women when it comes to political matters, and I take it the endless attempts by both main parties to throw men off selection lists are a manifestation of party belief in the concept that having more women in positions of power may persuade more women voters to engage in politics. I don’t see it myself. Not least because the more particularly labour tried to throw men out, the less and less voter turnout … I've not read the report, but shouldn't we want our politicians to reflect the people they represent? Our government seems to be run by old school boy chums who don't represent anyone other than themselves. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 14, 2022 17:51:50 GMT
www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/electoral_commission_pdf_file/Final_report_270404_12488-9470__E__N__S__W__.pdfThat document, apparently funded by the electoral commission but seemingly authored by a group of people the commission wish to distance themselves from, suggest there is an activism gap, and an engagement gap, between men and women when it comes to political matters, and I take it the endless attempts by both main parties to throw men off selection lists are a manifestation of party belief in the concept that having more women in positions of power may persuade more women voters to engage in politics. I don’t see it myself. Not least because the more particularly labour tried to throw men out, the less and less voter turnout … I've not read the report, but shouldn't we want our politicians to reflect the people they represent? Our government seems to be run by old school boy chums who don't represent anyone other than themselves. Well, I suppose we should. After all, thecwhole point of the 1832 reform act and the chartist demands for a wage for members of parliament was to try and get people to stand who reflected the views, and experiences, of the new voters. All I was really saying is I think that has failed. Not least because the degree of political engagement seems to have utterly tanked since my days as a twenty something. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 14, 2022 18:01:13 GMT
Totally agree there.
People stop watching the news, they have no idea what is going on.
They'd rather watch funny cat videos on TikTok.
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Post by jeg er on Nov 14, 2022 18:18:59 GMT
Totally agree there. People stop watching the news, they have no idea what is going on. They'd rather watch funny cat videos on TikTok. i wouldnt be seen dead watching the news or tik tok |
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