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Post by sheepy on Dec 29, 2023 13:31:08 GMT
Well actually Britons are known for their inventive nature. Probably why we are so watched. What have you invented, Sheeps? Your chance to make your vote count and keep counting, hardly my fault if you don't see it. |
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Post by Hutchyns on Dec 29, 2023 13:32:45 GMT
Darling
About the same wouldn't lead to a mass exodus from the countryside would it ?
Being in a warm, dry, big cotton mill or factory, rather than getting trench foot and hypothermia in the turnip fields won hands down.
The British working class voted with their feet ..... and life in the Industrial City romped home with a landslide victory.
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 29, 2023 13:50:16 GMT
What have you invented, Sheeps? Your chance to make your vote count and keep counting, hardly my fault if you don't see it. That was your invention? I've underestimated you, Sheeps. |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 29, 2023 13:51:21 GMT
Darling About the same wouldn't lead to a mass exodus from the countryside would it ? Being in a warm, dry, big cotton mill or factory, rather than getting trench foot and hypothermia in the turnip fields won hands down. The British working class voted with their feet ..... and life in the Industrial City romped home with a landslide victory. I'm still not sure if you're being sarcastic. When the countryside could no longer provide a subsistence income, people moved to the city, where slum housing, dangerous work conditions, exploitative working hours, prostitution and abject poverty waited to provide a subsistence lifestyle in its stead. |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 29, 2023 13:58:18 GMT
Your chance to make your vote count and keep counting, hardly my fault if you don't see it. That was your invention? I've underestimated you, Sheeps. The greatest ideas ever have come from Britons, well not entirely the devil told me to say it. I actually formed the idea when I was in computer science when I was waiting for the others to catch up, so if in the future we would be doing our shopping online and without a computer you would be deemed illiterate, then why should we still all be voting in such a backward manner. With the coming internet we should form a group who can change things. It has taken a bit longer than we thought but hey who said it was easy. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 29, 2023 14:54:29 GMT
Social security was invented back then with the workhouses. OK it is true to say the church also provided for the poor with medieval almshouses.
Maybe you should take a look at it. One of them still exists today. The ceilings are very low with low doorways. People were not so tall back in those days.
Great! Create conditions of mass poverty and then claim to be acting charitably by splitting families up and degrading them. I've no idea what the nonsense about religion is doing on this thread. Look at the date. We are talking about mid 13c. The church was fully in charge at this time. We had kings, but the kings themselves practised the system developed by the church and was based on biblical teachings. The church believed strongly in caring for the poor and the sick, so we can't understand the 19c without understanding the influence of the church. Marx is interesting because he too had a religious upbringing, but as I was saying, he was caught up in some obscure Christian cult. That's like Christians with guns kind of thing, as in an aberration of logic. Marx wanted to do good by doing bad stuff, like violent revolutions. This is what he had in mind when he said the workers should rise up and rule through creating a union, or a kind of labour cartel. Now Jesus never forced anyone except the guys trying to change money in the churches. It's interesting to note the soviet union, based on Marxism and Lenin ended up banning Christianity. Marx also had connections to the aristocracy, e.g. Jenny von Westphalen. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 29, 2023 14:59:24 GMT
Darling What a pity they couldn't have got word back to the rural workers and those still living in the Countryside to say 'The conditions here are awful, for God sake don't make the mistake we've made by coming to an Industrial city to live and work !'
Why didn't the masses of new arrivals take one look at the place and the condition of accommodation they'd be in, and turn on their heel and head straight back to the farm ? Isn't it similar to modern day demands to close down foreign sweatshops producing cheap clothing etc, when those places provide the most lucrative employment their workers can find ? If there were better conditions and employment elsewhere, then the Sweatshop workers would be out of their present employment like a shot, and grabbing the more cushy jobs instead. The BBC do terrifying reports of the ad hoc local trade in cobalt in DR Congo. The evil Chinese set up trading points where you weigh your minerals in and collect dollars for it. The BBC are horrified to discover even young kids are digging around in the ground for cobalt, where in their eyes they should be at school. Actually, if you watched them, you'd see they look pretty happy and are getting well into it. |
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Post by Hutchyns on Dec 29, 2023 15:18:52 GMT
BvL
Too true Baron, and wasn't it John Ruskin who you made mention of earlier in the thread, who famously took a group of his Oxford students and had them mending the roads in the locality in addition to their studies ?
A happy medium needs to be reached allowing the kids to get some schooling, leaving time for them to get out to enjoy some invigorating cobalt mining.
Contrast that with British kids cooped up classroom all through the daylight hours at this time of year, and then spending any additional time sat indoors in front of a computer screen at home. And the Authorities are already plotting ways to shorten the Summer holidays in order to deprive them of what little sunshine we get in Britain. Three cheers for the young cobalt miners, and more strength to their elbow.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 29, 2023 15:26:30 GMT
You give subsistence farming a go and then tell us how you get on... there is a reason that every country on the globe has moved away from that idea.. Why don't you try working 14 hour days in dangerous conditions for subsistence wages and tell us how you get on. There's a reason why slum conditions and widespread prostitution are largely a thing of the past in the UK. And it has nothing to do with people like you. What sort of person actually celebrates the oppression of his ancestors? Just relax for a minute and think - people left working on the land and moved to the cities because they ended up better off, it was not compulsory for them to leave. As another poster commented, you have this romantic view of subsistence farming as a halcyon existence where every day was a holiday. The reality was squalor, starvation and an early death. Given that it made perfect sense to try your luck in the big city. |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 29, 2023 15:31:22 GMT
Why don't you try working 14 hour days in dangerous conditions for subsistence wages and tell us how you get on. There's a reason why slum conditions and widespread prostitution are largely a thing of the past in the UK. And it has nothing to do with people like you. What sort of person actually celebrates the oppression of his ancestors? Just relax for a minute and think - people left working on the land and moved to the cities because they ended up better off, it was not compulsory for them to leave. As another poster commented, you have this romantic view of subsistence farming as a halcyon existence where every day was a holiday. The reality was squalor, starvation and an early death. Given that it made perfect sense to try your luck in the big city. I have no such romantic view. One form of subsistence lifestyle was swapped for another. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 31, 2023 1:02:19 GMT
BvL Too true Baron, and wasn't it John Ruskin who you made mention of earlier in the thread, who famously took a group of his Oxford students and had them mending the roads in the locality in addition to their studies ? A happy medium needs to be reached allowing the kids to get some schooling, leaving time for them to get out to enjoy some invigorating cobalt mining. Contrast that with British kids cooped up classroom all through the daylight hours at this time of year, and then spending any additional time sat indoors in front of a computer screen at home. And the Authorities are already plotting ways to shorten the Summer holidays in order to deprive them of what little sunshine we get in Britain. Three cheers for the young cobalt miners, and more strength to their elbow. The kids are learning about free trade and commodity prices. They will go far. I can see them using the dollars to set up capitalist businesses in the future. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 8, 2024 19:24:40 GMT
Darling About the same wouldn't lead to a mass exodus from the countryside would it ? Being in a warm, dry, big cotton mill or factory, rather than getting trench foot and hypothermia in the turnip fields won hands down. The British working class voted with their feet ..... and life in the Industrial City romped home with a landslide victory. I'm still not sure if you're being sarcastic. When the countryside could no longer provide a subsistence income, people moved to the city, where slum housing, dangerous work conditions, exploitative working hours, prostitution and abject poverty waited to provide a subsistence lifestyle in its stead. i’m not convinced you aren’t. The Enclosure Acts forced huge numbers of subsistence smallholders off their land into towns where starvation provided a workforce all ready to be exploited by the factory owners. |
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 8, 2024 19:28:42 GMT
I'm still not sure if you're being sarcastic. When the countryside could no longer provide a subsistence income, people moved to the city, where slum housing, dangerous work conditions, exploitative working hours, prostitution and abject poverty waited to provide a subsistence lifestyle in its stead. i’m not convinced you aren’t. The Enclosure Acts forced huge numbers of subsistence smallholders off their land into towns where starvation provided a workforce all ready to be exploited by the factory owners. Yep. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 8, 2024 22:51:33 GMT
Just relax for a minute and think - people left working on the land and moved to the cities because they ended up better off, it was not compulsory for them to leave. As another poster commented, you have this romantic view of subsistence farming as a halcyon existence where every day was a holiday. The reality was squalor, starvation and an early death. Given that it made perfect sense to try your luck in the big city. I have no such romantic view. One form of subsistence lifestyle was swapped for another. Yet subsistence in the cities turned into a comfortable life within a 100 years - subsistence farming is the same as it was a 1000 years ago. what is your beef about people bettering themselves?.. |
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 8, 2024 23:07:18 GMT
I have no such romantic view. One form of subsistence lifestyle was swapped for another. Yet subsistence in the cities turned into a comfortable life within a 100 years - subsistence farming is the same as it was a 1000 years ago. what is your beef about people bettering themselves?.. I've no idea what you're talking about, Doc. |
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