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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 24, 2023 15:03:21 GMT
I think it is this very so called benefits system which is causing the blight. If you are trapped in this system of claiming universal credit whilst being forced to take zero hour contracts from dodgy agencies then you could short circuit this entire scam. The problem is these officials spend most of their time wasting your time, so like I know people who just don't claim the benefits they are entitled to because they are much happier sourcing their own work. One simple example of how talking to your fellow people can really help is lets say there is a woman who claims universal credit and there is another woman who gets to do a fulltime job but has to claim child credits and pay through the nose for child care. Why not instead, give the child care work to the woman who was on universal credit so she has now got an income which makes up for what the dole would pay, and the two of them are now free from any official crap. The money the woman earns in a fulltime job then buys local services thereby helping others off these benefits. When no one is claiming benefits then all the time wasted is saved and put into useful productive work. As they progress down this track people will find all manner of good tricks to improve productivity and increase wealth of the whole area. The trick is operate with zero constraints. Anything that tries to unnecessarily constrain you, you try your best to ditch. The less constrains placed on the economic system the freer the system is able to optimise. I don't disagree with your idea but whilst welfare spongers are able to bank benefit levels akin to the salary of a taxed working person ( sponger untaxed, no benefit cap if they claim some so called disability ,plus rent at least part paid if not FOC ) then there is no incentive for a sponger to leave the gravy train of handouts with no obligations on their part- they are too ''entitled'' In my view I'd go further, spongers get far too much and its unaccountable - they should only receive personalised food vouchers exchangeable in major supermarkets only - no booze/fags/sky/netflix/luxuries/Spanish Costas etc. Travel warrants can be awarded for necessary bus/train A very nominal amount could be allowed in cash per month for incidentals - say £40 per calendar month If they don't like it they could always get a job and earn their own money The problem is the shit way a lot of firms operate cause a large amount of inefficiency. Like you as a UB employee gets paid min wage for a care job when the agency is being paid £23ph and the customer a ton more on top of that. It's a scam. |
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Post by ratcliff on Dec 24, 2023 16:06:02 GMT
I don't disagree with your idea but whilst welfare spongers are able to bank benefit levels akin to the salary of a taxed working person ( sponger untaxed, no benefit cap if they claim some so called disability ,plus rent at least part paid if not FOC ) then there is no incentive for a sponger to leave the gravy train of handouts with no obligations on their part- they are too ''entitled'' In my view I'd go further, spongers get far too much and its unaccountable - they should only receive personalised food vouchers exchangeable in major supermarkets only - no booze/fags/sky/netflix/luxuries/Spanish Costas etc. Travel warrants can be awarded for necessary bus/train A very nominal amount could be allowed in cash per month for incidentals - say £40 per calendar month If they don't like it they could always get a job and earn their own money The problem is the shit way a lot of firms operate cause a large amount of inefficiency. Like you as a UB employee gets paid min wage for a care job when the agency is being paid £23ph and the customer a ton more on top of that. It's a scam. It's a job , no excuse for spongers to continue sponging and your point only proves that benefits are currently paid at far too high a level - maximum should be a % of f/t minimum wage pour encourager les autres
options: Work longer hours Get two jobs Upskill |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 24, 2023 19:47:13 GMT
The problem is the shit way a lot of firms operate cause a large amount of inefficiency. Like you as a UB employee gets paid min wage for a care job when the agency is being paid £23ph and the customer a ton more on top of that. It's a scam. It's a job , no excuse for spongers to continue sponging and your point only proves that benefits are currently paid at far too high a level - maximum should be a % of f/t minimum wage pour encourager les autres
options: Work longer hours Get two jobs Upskill The jobs do not exist in these areas I'm referring to. Industry went bust decades ago. Upskill as you put it will not help you if your skills are in jobs that don't exist. Also who the hell is going to teach skills that no one practices? You give us a simplistic view that is really part of the problem. All these crap ideas have been tried for decades and yet the towns become ever-poorer and fall into evermore disrepair. If you can't get one job you can not get two, and as firms gradually go bust they will put people on shorter hours or sack altogether. I'm suggesting here one applies a more sophisticated economic analysis which seeks to answer why the area remains in poverty and can't get its ass into gear. If the government just cut off all benefits then the area would turn to crime and the problem gets worse. I'm suggesting a way these people can act right now to work within the existing system, but to opt out of the kind of benefits that drag you in every week and dictate your life to you. I'm talking about time economy. The more useless crap these civil servant crap merchants hand out the less time you have to build a new economy that works on a local level. To rebuild industry from the ground up would be to start with really basic products that are widely used locally and can be produced cheaper if they were produced locally. Industry is all about converting raw materials into higher-value merchandise, and you want to build it up so the output of one firm feeds in the input of another. The community buy in bulk rough wood and convert to furniture say. This is how wealth multiplies. Buy in cheap, process and sell expensive. Once you have perfected your art to satisfy the needs of the poor cheap low cost local market you can punt it out further afield and expand. They used ot call it eating your own dogfood. Make it good enough for yourself and your associates before thinking it is good enough to sell to a wider market and you can't really go wrong. You learn on the job. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 24, 2023 19:59:00 GMT
It's a job , no excuse for spongers to continue sponging and your point only proves that benefits are currently paid at far too high a level - maximum should be a % of f/t minimum wage pour encourager les autres
options: Work longer hours Get two jobs Upskill The jobs do not exist in these areas I'm referring to. Industry went bust decades ago. Upskill as you put it will not help you if your skills are in jobs that don't exist. Also who the hell is going to teach skills that no one practices? You give us a simplistic view that is really part of the problem. All these crap ideas have been tried for decades and yet the towns become ever-poorer and fall into evermore disrepair. If you can't get one job you can not get two, and as firms gradually go bust they will put people on shorter hours or sack altogether. I'm suggesting here one applies a more sophisticated economic analysis which seeks to answer why the area remains in poverty and can't get its ass into gear. If the government just cut off all benefits then the area would turn to crime and the problem gets worse. I'm suggesting a way these people can act right now to work within the existing system, but to opt out of the kind of benefits that drag you in every week and dictate your life to you. I'm talking about time economy. The more useless crap these civil servant crap merchants hand out the less time you have to build a new economy that works on a local level. To rebuild industry from the ground up would be to start with really basic products that are widely used locally and can be produced cheaper if they were produced locally. Industry is all about converting raw materials into higher-value merchandise, and you want to build it up so the output of one firm feeds in the input of another. The community buy in bulk rough wood and convert to furniture say. This is how wealth multiplies. Buy in cheap, process and sell expensive. Once you have perfected your art to satisfy the needs of the poor cheap low cost local market you can punt it out further afield and expand. They used ot call it eating your own dogfood. Make it good enough for yourself and your associates before thinking it is good enough to sell to a wider market and you can't really go wrong. You learn on the job. Imo we would need leaders that give a crap about ordinary people . Tbh I suspect that the late 50s to mid 60s gave our political elite a bit of a fright . The great unwashed unified a little but too much for their liking . |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 24, 2023 20:15:43 GMT
The jobs do not exist in these areas I'm referring to. Industry went bust decades ago. Upskill as you put it will not help you if your skills are in jobs that don't exist. Also who the hell is going to teach skills that no one practices? You give us a simplistic view that is really part of the problem. All these crap ideas have been tried for decades and yet the towns become ever-poorer and fall into evermore disrepair. If you can't get one job you can not get two, and as firms gradually go bust they will put people on shorter hours or sack altogether. I'm suggesting here one applies a more sophisticated economic analysis which seeks to answer why the area remains in poverty and can't get its ass into gear. If the government just cut off all benefits then the area would turn to crime and the problem gets worse. I'm suggesting a way these people can act right now to work within the existing system, but to opt out of the kind of benefits that drag you in every week and dictate your life to you. I'm talking about time economy. The more useless crap these civil servant crap merchants hand out the less time you have to build a new economy that works on a local level. To rebuild industry from the ground up would be to start with really basic products that are widely used locally and can be produced cheaper if they were produced locally. Industry is all about converting raw materials into higher-value merchandise, and you want to build it up so the output of one firm feeds in the input of another. The community buy in bulk rough wood and convert to furniture say. This is how wealth multiplies. Buy in cheap, process and sell expensive. Once you have perfected your art to satisfy the needs of the poor cheap low cost local market you can punt it out further afield and expand. They used ot call it eating your own dogfood. Make it good enough for yourself and your associates before thinking it is good enough to sell to a wider market and you can't really go wrong. You learn on the job. Imo we would need leaders that give a crap about ordinary people . Tbh I suspect that the late 50s to mid 60s gave our political elite a bit of a fright . The great unwashed unified a little but too much for their liking . What you mention reminds me of the time in the 60s in London around the King's Road and that area. Property and rental was cheap because London was still suffering from the bombings. The thing is dirt cheap rental in what would probably be derelict is the best way to start up new industry, since your fixed overheads are virtually zero, so you have the time and the space to play about with ideas and come up with a clever product. They got their sewing machines out and made cheap clothes for the young kids who were probably not that discerning at the time, but cheap meant big sales. Many of these people are now multimillionaires, and I think at least one or two hit the big time. The area became internationally recognised as a leading centre for fashion. Of course it was in the south though. I can't see why the Northerners could not do similar. When it is your own business you really learn to care, and care makes quality, and quality makes money. It's also bloody good fun, especially when you work with people who you know and get along with. |
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Post by ratcliff on Dec 25, 2023 11:03:10 GMT
It's a job , no excuse for spongers to continue sponging and your point only proves that benefits are currently paid at far too high a level - maximum should be a % of f/t minimum wage pour encourager les autres
options: Work longer hours Get two jobs Upskill The jobs do not exist in these areas I'm referring to. Industry went bust decades ago. Upskill as you put it will not help you if your skills are in jobs that don't exist. Also who the hell is going to teach skills that no one practices? You give us a simplistic view that is really part of the problem. All these crap ideas have been tried for decades and yet the towns become ever-poorer and fall into evermore disrepair. If you can't get one job you can not get two, and as firms gradually go bust they will put people on shorter hours or sack altogether. I'm suggesting here one applies a more sophisticated economic analysis which seeks to answer why the area remains in poverty and can't get its ass into gear. If the government just cut off all benefits then the area would turn to crime and the problem gets worse. I'm suggesting a way these people can act right now to work within the existing system, but to opt out of the kind of benefits that drag you in every week and dictate your life to you. I'm talking about time economy. The more useless crap these civil servant crap merchants hand out the less time you have to build a new economy that works on a local level. To rebuild industry from the ground up would be to start with really basic products that are widely used locally and can be produced cheaper if they were produced locally. Industry is all about converting raw materials into higher-value merchandise, and you want to build it up so the output of one firm feeds in the input of another. The community buy in bulk rough wood and convert to furniture say. This is how wealth multiplies. Buy in cheap, process and sell expensive. Once you have perfected your art to satisfy the needs of the poor cheap low cost local market you can punt it out further afield and expand. They used ot call it eating your own dogfood. Make it good enough for yourself and your associates before thinking it is good enough to sell to a wider market and you can't really go wrong. You learn on the job. Plenty of unskilled jobs available for spongers to stop their all found life of entitlement (but welfare levels of handouts need reducing substantially) options: Work longer hours Get two jobs Upskill (and get onto your pathway) |
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Post by johnofgwent on Dec 25, 2023 11:55:48 GMT
OK
This is hardly a new idea. Back in 1988 I was looking to move house from the two bed terrace we had bought as a starter home because Moira was pregnant again. There was no such thing as zoopla back then but i remember the classified papges of the south wales echo thursday property edition had three properties each on offer for £39,500. This was just before Lawsonls asinine "i am going to remove the dual income MIRAS Tax Relief For Unmarried Couples" in six months" bullshit that caused the biggest property boom and subsequent negative equity crisis EVER
One - which we bought in ONE DAY using an insurance policy to cover the total cost if the survey showed a disaster - was a 1950's three bed semi with an acre of garden two miles from our current address
The second was a 12 x 8 broom cupboard in a former London hotel near the north cicrular converted into flats which offered this space which actually had a window looking out onto a traffic filled street as a studio bedsit
The third was a Scottish castle offered without the surrounding 120 or so acres of land which were being sold separately for about half a million, and without the fishing rights to the river that flowed through said land, which were on sale for a million, or the shooting rights over said land which were about two amd a half million
The reason for the low price was of course the disturbanceyou would get from the fishing and shooting parties plus there being no bloody work for thirty miles around.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 25, 2023 13:46:25 GMT
The jobs do not exist in these areas I'm referring to. Industry went bust decades ago. Upskill as you put it will not help you if your skills are in jobs that don't exist. Also who the hell is going to teach skills that no one practices? You give us a simplistic view that is really part of the problem. All these crap ideas have been tried for decades and yet the towns become ever-poorer and fall into evermore disrepair. If you can't get one job you can not get two, and as firms gradually go bust they will put people on shorter hours or sack altogether. I'm suggesting here one applies a more sophisticated economic analysis which seeks to answer why the area remains in poverty and can't get its ass into gear. If the government just cut off all benefits then the area would turn to crime and the problem gets worse. I'm suggesting a way these people can act right now to work within the existing system, but to opt out of the kind of benefits that drag you in every week and dictate your life to you. I'm talking about time economy. The more useless crap these civil servant crap merchants hand out the less time you have to build a new economy that works on a local level. To rebuild industry from the ground up would be to start with really basic products that are widely used locally and can be produced cheaper if they were produced locally. Industry is all about converting raw materials into higher-value merchandise, and you want to build it up so the output of one firm feeds in the input of another. The community buy in bulk rough wood and convert to furniture say. This is how wealth multiplies. Buy in cheap, process and sell expensive. Once you have perfected your art to satisfy the needs of the poor cheap low cost local market you can punt it out further afield and expand. They used ot call it eating your own dogfood. Make it good enough for yourself and your associates before thinking it is good enough to sell to a wider market and you can't really go wrong. You learn on the job. Plenty of unskilled jobs available for spongers to stop their all found life of entitlement (but welfare levels of handouts need reducing substantially) options: Work longer hours Get two jobs Upskill (and get onto your pathway) Why just repeat you post? Your mental processes are not evolving. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 25, 2023 13:58:52 GMT
OK This is hardly a new idea. Back in 1988 I was looking to move house from the two bed terrace we had bought as a starter home because Moira was pregnant again. There was no such thing as zoopla back then but i remember the classified papges of the south wales echo thursday property edition had three properties each on offer for £39,500. This was just before Lawsonls asinine "i am going to remove the dual income MIRAS Tax Relief For Unmarried Couples" in six months" bullshit that caused the biggest property boom and subsequent negative equity crisis EVER One - which we bought in ONE DAY using an insurance policy to cover the total cost if the survey showed a disaster - was a 1950's three bed semi with an acre of garden two miles from our current address The second was a 12 x 8 broom cupboard in a former London hotel near the north cicrular converted into flats which offered this space which actually had a window looking out onto a traffic filled street as a studio bedsit The third was a Scottish castle offered without the surrounding 120 or so acres of land which were being sold separately for about half a million, and without the fishing rights to the river that flowed through said land, which were on sale for a million, or the shooting rights over said land which were about two amd a half million The reason for the low price was of course the disturbanceyou would get from the fishing and shooting parties plus there being no bloody work for thirty miles around. This is the trick - to make work happen where none existed before. I would not bother with a service industry. We have services everywhere, but without something that can generate cash outside of the area you don't get any cash flowing into the area. I think what is needed is people to relearn how to manufacture, and the only way this will happen is if people actually started to do it, however craply they manage, you learn by doing, so once you can sell the products for more than it cost you then you are winning. I can't see this is such rocket science. It does a not even matter at first if you make £10/week, because as long as you are not perpetually losing money it has the time to develop. As soon as one person cracks it then others will ask him, how did you do that. The golden rule is, buy cheap. Many properties are not even being used up north so you could probably do a cheapskate deal with the owner including the offer of renovating it so they get it back in better nick than before. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 26, 2023 12:55:46 GMT
These areas have got to stop trying to beg government for grants and other redevelopment money. Firstly the government no longer has the cash to splash around like it once did, and even if it did redevelop the area they would redevelop it into a shithole politically correct hell hole of another kind. If instead the people got off their arses and started thinking how can I and my friends make some cash ourselves then they would end up as the masters and would not be pushed around by government. They could rebuild it themselves to their own satisfaction and they could make sure only people on their side were on the council, which would then let the community get on and build it. You ideally want a low tax and non-interventionist council. As they say, money is power and if you control the means of production no one can control you by threatening to cut off your funding. It is better in the long-run to generate your own funding that you are in control of then to take a dead end job that might pay more to start with than self-employment, but may well be a job without a future. Indeed one needs to reach a critical mass of traders and industry to make the economy work. The hard part is getting it started, but there is only one way it will work, and that is the hard way. Don't borrow but build small into large.
Edit:
Here is a real life example of a northerner buying cheap and pulling his fingers out. Most of the cost in these jobs is the labour, but if you are happy to put the graft in then you can quite easily cover your two largest costs. The other factor in this is what others do in your immediate area. If they all got off their arses and improved the properties to this standard they would all be worth more due to the quality of the neighbourhood, and all the more so if the community worked to stop crime, which is the biggest hit on the house prices in an area, i.e. thefts.
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Post by ratcliff on Dec 28, 2023 12:26:55 GMT
Plenty of unskilled jobs available for spongers to stop their all found life of entitlement (but welfare levels of handouts need reducing substantially) options: Work longer hours Get two jobs Upskill (and get onto your pathway) Why just repeat you post? Your mental processes are not evolving. You tried movng goalposts to the skilled sector and skills training , thus ignoring my post about unskilled sector spongers and using your own mental process and hobby horse - All I've done is return to the topic I discussed - unskilled vacancies |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 28, 2023 22:39:13 GMT
Why just repeat you post? Your mental processes are not evolving. You tried movng goalposts to the skilled sector and skills training , thus ignoring my post about unskilled sector spongers and using your own mental process and hobby horse - All I've done is return to the topic I discussed - unskilled vacancies I'm just trying to figure out how such an area can get its ass into gear without relying on the government. Skill is definitely needed, and I would start with economic skills, which I was trying to develop. Economics is a hobby of mine. I hope my analysis is good, and it is intended to be so. It's not an argument, but practical tactical help. I don't like the term spongers much either. It makes me think you are talking about window cleaners! To get this together requires a sense of humility, and pragmatism. Don't start out thinking one knows everything, and be willing to learn from experience. I've started businesses myself and most of the advice I got was bloody wrong. Sometimes you just have to do your own research. Use peer-reviewed science. |
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Post by ratcliff on Dec 29, 2023 13:13:20 GMT
You tried movng goalposts to the skilled sector and skills training , thus ignoring my post about unskilled sector spongers and using your own mental process and hobby horse - All I've done is return to the topic I discussed - unskilled vacancies I'm just trying to figure out how such an area can get its ass into gear without relying on the government. Skill is definitely needed, and I would start with economic skills, which I was trying to develop. Economics is a hobby of mine. I hope my analysis is good, and it is intended to be so. It's not an argument, but practical tactical help. I don't like the term spongers much either. It makes me think you are talking about window cleaners! To get this together requires a sense of humility, and pragmatism. Don't start out thinking one knows everything, and be willing to learn from experience. I've started businesses myself and most of the advice I got was bloody wrong. Sometimes you just have to do your own research. Use peer-reviewed science.
Well window cleaning is yet another potential job for those who, without having to lift a finger,have decided they would prefer to enjoy an entitled life standard equal or better than the life standard of those who work and pay tax are forced to pay for . If you don't like the term spongers that's just fine ,I'll use those suffering with taxpayer funded entitled lazyitis , unless you'd prefer benefit scroungers instead? I'm not particularly fussed either way . Just reduce total benefits to bare subsistence levels (50/60% of minimum wage including housing) force them into work and they can go to night school to upskill. Those with taxpayer funded lazyitis/benefit scroungers don't need any economics lessons - they are already very well skilled in totting up benefit ''entitlements'' |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 29, 2023 13:48:25 GMT
I'm just trying to figure out how such an area can get its ass into gear without relying on the government. Skill is definitely needed, and I would start with economic skills, which I was trying to develop. Economics is a hobby of mine. I hope my analysis is good, and it is intended to be so. It's not an argument, but practical tactical help. I don't like the term spongers much either. It makes me think you are talking about window cleaners! To get this together requires a sense of humility, and pragmatism. Don't start out thinking one knows everything, and be willing to learn from experience. I've started businesses myself and most of the advice I got was bloody wrong. Sometimes you just have to do your own research. Use peer-reviewed science.
Well window cleaning is yet another potential job for those who, without having to lift a finger,have decided they would prefer to enjoy an entitled life standard equal or better than the life standard of those who work and pay tax are forced to pay for . If you don't like the term spongers that's just fine ,I'll use those suffering with taxpayer funded entitled lazyitis , unless you'd prefer benefit scroungers instead? I'm not particularly fussed either way . Just reduce total benefits to bare subsistence levels (50/60% of minimum wage including housing) force them into work and they can go to night school to upskill. Those with taxpayer funded lazyitis/benefit scroungers don't need any economics lessons - they are already very well skilled in totting up benefit ''entitlements'' Yes but what you are barking at is causing one to uphold the very system you despise. With such a useless socialist fascist state the Brits will find another way to improve their lives. I'm trying to suggest here the natural drive for improvement and personal freedom should be exploited in a constructive way, where today it degenerates into destructive behaviour, like riots. I know the game you propose, and that is brute force and ignorance. In the extreme it would be holding a gun to their heads and that would certainly make them work for a while, but next up they will kill you, much like the Chinese did when they had guns held to their heads in the factories under fascist rule.
OK so lets look at one of your ideas. You say night school. That's a rather old concept, but anyway, take a look at the education today. The bottom line is the education system we have now is next to useless, and chances are it will talk shit to you, making you think wrong things, where wrong thoughts lead to error. In taking this path you will no doubt have to sign contracts. Contracts bind you to something. They are where you agree to be bound by certain terms on receipt of what you consider to be a benefit, i.e. an exchange of commitment. The side offering the deal though are con artists. If you want to talk more about the problems with academia i will explain, but just to say here, the system is no longer teaching, but is a form of social propaganda. It is like a cult and is abusive.
It is very important that these people accurately discern right knowledge and tactics from wrong knowledge. To make sure what we are learning is correct we need to go back to the idea of empiricism. Who is to say what would and what would not work in business? Who is the greatest authority? There are a million bullshitters out there with their own theories, but to be sure is to practise and experiment. Try by experiment. If it works it is good, if not, learn why not. There are many ways of doing something, and not all of those have been tried. Out of the millions of different trials some will be seen to work, some might get combined with others to work even better. What you do not want is some friggin' "night school" with some chap who has never ever run his own business preaching to the ignorant. That'll make them even more ignorant and probably more in debt. The school don't care though. They are laughing as they have made their cash. They say, Oh you mean you still can't get a job even with our degree. I suggest you study for "masters" then!
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