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Post by dappy on Dec 4, 2023 20:27:00 GMT
In the context of the care sector where we have a massive excess of demand over available UK labour, surely we do desperately need those from abroad. In the case of an average young lad from Liverpool who wants to marry and live with the girl he loves but is now prevented from doing so because she happens to have been born in Madrid rather than Manchester, well surely that is just utterly heartless. Still a positive headline in the Express and the possibility of a vote from a knuckle-dragger apparently makes it all worthwhile. Kick the w*nkers out. So we should build our immigration policy around an imagined love story? Leftie politics in action . Is "rightie" politics now to deny the reality that young people travel abroad and meet and fall in love with "foreigners". Should we build our immigration policy around reality or an imagined homogeneous world where boys from Liverpool only marry girls from the next street along. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 4, 2023 20:31:52 GMT
So we should build our immigration policy around an imagined love story? Leftie politics in action . Is "rightie" politics now to deny the reality that young people travel abroad and meet and fall in love with "foreigners". Should we build our immigration policy around reality or an imagined homogeneous world where boys from Liverpool only marry girls from the next street along. We should build our immigration policies in a pragmatic way and in the interests of the UK. Not to reflect romantic novels . In other news we should not build our policy on weapons ,murder and underage sex to reflect ‘ Romeo and Juliet’. |
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Post by dappy on Dec 4, 2023 20:55:37 GMT
Is "rightie" politics now to deny the reality that young people travel abroad and meet and fall in love with "foreigners". Should we build our immigration policy around reality or an imagined homogeneous world where boys from Liverpool only marry girls from the next street along. We should build our immigration policies in a pragmatic way and in the interests of the UK. Not to reflect romantic novels . In other news we should not build our policy on weapons ,murder and underage sex to reflect ‘ Romeo and Juliet’. You don't think a pragmatic immigration policy would be designed such that a English boy and a Spanish girl could marry and live in Liverpool if that is what they want to do? |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 4, 2023 21:04:20 GMT
I think that 760,000 people ought to be enough for our care homes for a few years don't you? Seriously though if we were only letting in those needed desperately there would be an issue at all. In the context of the care sector where we have a massive excess of demand over available UK labour, surely we do desperately need those from abroad. In the case of an average young lad from Liverpool who wants to marry and live with the girl he loves but is now prevented from doing so because she happens to have been born in Madrid rather than Manchester, well surely that is just utterly heartless. Still a positive headline in the Express and the possibility of a vote from a knuckle-dragger apparently makes it all worthwhile. Kick the w*nkers out. Did you really miss my point? No one would mind if we accepted only people wanting to work in the care sector and a few other essential services. But when you get to the point of saying students can bring dependents, then its gone mad. And your example is very poor. The Liverpool lad is British, he hasn't arrived here from Madrid brining his dependants with him. Further were he Spanish and bringing his dependants but have to support them and provide their medical insurance that might also make in more palatable. Could give a toss about the Express. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 4, 2023 21:08:29 GMT
We should build our immigration policies in a pragmatic way and in the interests of the UK. Not to reflect romantic novels . In other news we should not build our policy on weapons ,murder and underage sex to reflect ‘ Romeo and Juliet’. You don't think a pragmatic immigration policy would be designed such that a English boy and a Spanish girl could marry and live in Liverpool if that is what they want to do? It could and it does . |
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Post by dappy on Dec 4, 2023 21:22:39 GMT
You don't think a pragmatic immigration policy would be designed such that a English boy and a Spanish girl could marry and live in Liverpool if that is what they want to do? It could and it does . No it doesn't. At least it will not with the new changes that this shameful government is introducing. Unless the lad in Liverpool is in the top 20% of earners for people under 35. Shameful isn't it |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 4, 2023 21:24:43 GMT
Have you any stats for the'silent majority'. I think the various party manifestos over the years have stated clearly what the silent majority wanted as that was the only time they were allowed to say what they wanted without being called racist. You are one of the ones trying to make the claim that you speak for a majority no one notices because they choose to remain silent. Have you any evidence to back up such a claim? Because most people with any opinionated axe to grind in this country are rarely backwards in coming forwards, as this forum demonstrates. So any silence from an imagined majority is likely to be due to exactly that. They are mostly imagined. By those who are desperate to believe that in speaking for themselves they have the support of the people. Though the evidence for that is of course negligible. The evidence is in how people voted over the last 60 years and even more recently. What you want to do is pretend that strictly controlled immigration was never in any manifesto yet the 'silent majority' who are effectively the electorate have made it crystal clear what they want time and time again, all parties pay lip service in a manifesto but it is clear it is there. Forgive me if I believe the democratic vote of the people is somehow important in assessing what they want. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 4, 2023 21:30:01 GMT
If you have a shortage to fill a specific low paid position what do the laws of supply and demand suggest should be done about it? The average young lad is not prevented as his freedoms to go where he pleases are not restricted by the UK government. Well Sandy , in the long run you seek to adjust factors to help and encourage UK workers to join that sector. Perhaps you offer tax incentives for people working in that sector to encourage more people to take those roles. Or perhaps you invest in training schemes to help UK people acquire the skills needed. There is a whole range of things you could do but they will all take time. What you don't do is damage people's lives by cutting off the supply of bridge labour to fill the gaps while you are delivering that extra UK originating labour supply. Except that you apparently do if you are more interested in newspaper headlines and knuckledragger votes than in real people. As for our Liverpudlian this appalling government is absolutely affected his freedoms and his life. They are forcing this lad to choose between living with the girl he loves but leaving behind his home in his country and near his family or staying at home and breaking off his relationship with the love of his life, all so Sunak and co can try to keep their snout in the trough for a little longer. It really is utterly shameful. By bridge labour you of course mean cheap labour which comes with all the economic, social and environmental disadvantages that have been well aired. The time to take action is now, not sometime down the road and enforce companies to not take the easy route and one of least resistance but to actually take action themselves now and enforcing that is cutting of the supply of cheap labour. EDIT many things affect many people's freedoms and lives, we are forced to choose many things in life and many are a distinct pain. He leaves nothing 'behind' there is no restriction on visits, is there? It is like the old East End whereby large scale immigration forced people to live miles away from their extended family because social housing was not available to them as incomers had more need. From the left and for the Old Eastenders there was little or no sympathy. |
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Post by dappy on Dec 4, 2023 21:31:16 GMT
In the context of the care sector where we have a massive excess of demand over available UK labour, surely we do desperately need those from abroad. In the case of an average young lad from Liverpool who wants to marry and live with the girl he loves but is now prevented from doing so because she happens to have been born in Madrid rather than Manchester, well surely that is just utterly heartless. Still a positive headline in the Express and the possibility of a vote from a knuckle-dragger apparently makes it all worthwhile. Kick the w*nkers out. Did you really miss my point? No one would mind if we accepted only people wanting to work in the care sector and a few other essential services. But when you get to the point of saying students can bring dependents, then its gone mad. And your example is very poor. The Liverpool lad is British, he hasn't arrived here from Madrid brining his dependants with him. Further were he Spanish and bringing his dependants but have to support them and provide their medical insurance that might also make in more palatable. Could give a toss about the Express. I am not against sensible adjustments Zany and that may well include students dependents - although as long as the student fully funds them hard perhaps to see the downside of them also. You need to explain why my example is very poor. If a lad from Liverpool , a British lad, wants to bring his Spanish born wife to live with him in Liverpool, he will now no longer be able to unless he is in the top 20% of earners for people under 35. Do you not agree that is shameful. Do we now agree that the Government's announced policy today to ban much needed care workers from bringing dependents with them, hence further exacerbating the critical labour shortfall in that sector and perhaps even worse their policy to ban British boy/spanish girl married partners from living together in the UK (unless he is in the top 20% of Under 35 earners) are both ridiculous and indeed shameful policies. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 4, 2023 21:32:46 GMT
No it doesn't. At least it will not with the new changes that this shameful government is introducing. Unless the lad in Liverpool is in the top 20% of earners for people under 35. Shameful isn't it Don't worry Dappy they wont be around long enough to get it through. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 4, 2023 21:35:04 GMT
No it doesn't. At least it will not with the new changes that this shameful government is introducing. Unless the lad in Liverpool is in the top 20% of earners for people under 35. Shameful isn't it I think you need to provide evidence that an English born Liverpudlians Spanish spouse will be prohibited from entering the UK unless he earns more than 80% of earners . Even if it is the case the law only needs a little fettling . |
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Post by dappy on Dec 4, 2023 21:37:11 GMT
Well Sandy , in the long run you seek to adjust factors to help and encourage UK workers to join that sector. Perhaps you offer tax incentives for people working in that sector to encourage more people to take those roles. Or perhaps you invest in training schemes to help UK people acquire the skills needed. There is a whole range of things you could do but they will all take time. What you don't do is damage people's lives by cutting off the supply of bridge labour to fill the gaps while you are delivering that extra UK originating labour supply. Except that you apparently do if you are more interested in newspaper headlines and knuckledragger votes than in real people. As for our Liverpudlian this appalling government is absolutely affected his freedoms and his life. They are forcing this lad to choose between living with the girl he loves but leaving behind his home in his country and near his family or staying at home and breaking off his relationship with the love of his life, all so Sunak and co can try to keep their snout in the trough for a little longer. It really is utterly shameful. By bridge labour you of course mean cheap labour which comes with all the economic, social and environmental disadvantages that have been well aired. The time to take action is now, not sometime down the road and enforce companies to not take the easy route and one of least resistance but to actually take action themselves now and enforcing that is cutting of the supply of cheap labour. Not cheap labour - just labour. We don't have sufficient labour in the UK with the correct skills to fill the vacancies in the care sector. We can start training people now and with perhaps some tax breaks we MIGHT eventually have enough domestic workers to fill the gaps. At that time perfectly acceptable to close the immigration route. To close the immigration route before we have UK workers simply exacerbates the already significant shortfall in available care and further reduces the quality of life for our elderly citizens. |
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Post by dappy on Dec 4, 2023 21:38:46 GMT
No it doesn't. At least it will not with the new changes that this shameful government is introducing. Unless the lad in Liverpool is in the top 20% of earners for people under 35. Shameful isn't it I think you need to provide evidence that an English born Liverpudlians Spanish spouse will be prohibited from entering the UK unless he earns more than 80% of earners . Even if it is the case the law only needs a little fettling . Its just been announced in the commons for fecks sake. Its all over the internet' Look it up. And then perhaps have the courtesy to return and agree with me that the policy is shameful. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 4, 2023 21:40:31 GMT
By bridge labour you of course mean cheap labour which comes with all the economic, social and environmental disadvantages that have been well aired. The time to take action is now, not sometime down the road and enforce companies to not take the easy route and one of least resistance but to actually take action themselves now and enforcing that is cutting of the supply of cheap labour. Not cheap labour - just labour. We don't have sufficient labour in the UK with the correct skills to fill the vacancies in the care sector. We can start training people now and with perhaps some tax breaks we MIGHT eventually have enough domestic workers to fill the gaps. At that time perfectly acceptable to close the immigration route. To close the immigration route before we have UK workers simply exacerbates the already significant shortfall in available care and further reduces the quality of life for our elderly citizens. Imported labour would need training to work in care .In English most at first more likely . |
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Post by dappy on Dec 4, 2023 21:41:36 GMT
No they come with appropriate skills.
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