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Post by Bentley on Dec 1, 2023 18:02:18 GMT
You suggested they would benefit from learning about the harm that can and has been done by irrational hatred . Unless you are claiming it is black people doing the discrimination. Round and around we go.. Nope, I said everyone, not white people specifically. So it’s black people discriminating against candidates with ‘ black’ names too? Interesting . |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 1, 2023 18:04:55 GMT
Which is ironic because you have blamed just about everyone that voted for any recent government’ …..’we’. Well as I said. I you can argue a large majority voting Tory meant they all supported Brexit, then you can also argue a large majority voting Tory meant they all support Tory immigration figures. Just laying some ground rules, so that when we get onto building enough homes someone doesn't say we shouldn't have to. So you are saying that we should stop blaming other people while you are blaming other people ? Jeez. |
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Post by ratcliff on Dec 1, 2023 18:33:31 GMT
So people who've built up their own business should strictly put their needs and feelings aside and base their actions on your views. It seems you want to change the course and function of what it means to be human, and by that you essentially want foreign sounding names to be given a job over anglo-saxon ones with no ifs or buts. No, that's pretty much the opposite of what I said. I recommend people make decisions based on factual evidence and observeable reality rather than feelings. I don't want to see any kind of prejudice in the job market. You don't think that it should be acceptable (or possible) to interview someone for a job who seems to be suitably qualified on paper and at interview feel that there is no way they would be a good fit for your organisation/team because of personality so you choose someone else for the job who you feel would be a better fit for the team? That should be a no-no in your opinion? If so it's a very naïve viewpoint - why on earth should you upset the existing applecart just because you 'feel' that is prejudice |
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 1, 2023 18:34:13 GMT
Nope, I said everyone, not white people specifically. So it’s black people discriminating against candidates with ‘ black’ names too? Interesting . Did I say that? |
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 1, 2023 18:36:52 GMT
No, that's pretty much the opposite of what I said. I recommend people make decisions based on factual evidence and observeable reality rather than feelings. I don't want to see any kind of prejudice in the job market. You don't think that it should be acceptable (or possible) to interview someone for a job who seems to be suitably qualified on paper and at interview feel that there is no way they would be a good fit for your organisation/team because of personality so you choose someone else for the job who you feel would be a better fit for the team? That should be a no-no in your opinion? If so it's a very naïve viewpoint - why on earth should you upset the existing applecart just because you 'feel' that is prejudice I don't believe I said that, how they would fit in with the team and company culture/values personality wise relates to capability. It's not remotely similar to dismissing them out of hand because of their skin tone. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 1, 2023 18:38:35 GMT
So it’s black people discriminating against candidates with ‘ black’ names too? Interesting . Did I say that? Me. You suggested they would benefit from learning about the harm that can and has been done by irrational hatred . Unless you are claiming it is black people doing the discrimination. Round and around we go.. You..Nope, I said everyone, not white people specifically. So why should black people learn about the harm that can and has been done by irrational hatred when they are nit the ones discriminating? |
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 1, 2023 18:40:59 GMT
Me. You suggested they would benefit from learning about the harm that can and has been done by irrational hatred . Unless you are claiming it is black people doing the discrimination. Round and around we go.. You..Nope, I said everyone, not white people specifically. So why should black people learn about the harm that can and has been done by irrational hatred when they are nit the ones discriminating? People of any and all ethnicities are capable of racism. I would have thought that was obvious. The less racial prejudice there is in society the better IMHO. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 1, 2023 18:49:15 GMT
Me. You suggested they would benefit from learning about the harm that can and has been done by irrational hatred . Unless you are claiming it is black people doing the discrimination. Round and around we go.. You..Nope, I said everyone, not white people specifically. So why should black people learn about the harm that can and has been done by irrational hatred when they are nit the ones discriminating? People of any and all ethnicities are capable of racism. I would have thought that was obvious. The less racial prejudice there is in society the better IMHO. So are black people discriminating against CVs with African or Asian names or not ? If they are not then why should they attend these classes ? You talk in riddles . That still leaves your claim that while people discriminate against CVs with African and Asian names an assumption . It still doesn’t refute the point that the initial selection relies on discrimination to function and that you want people with Black and Asian names to be an exception. You have no solution except some vague notion of classes about irrational hatred . |
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 1, 2023 18:54:50 GMT
People of any and all ethnicities are capable of racism. I would have thought that was obvious. The less racial prejudice there is in society the better IMHO. So are black people discriminating against CVs with African or Asian names or not ? If they are not then why should they attend these classes ? You talk in riddles . That still leaves your claim that while people discriminate against CVs with African and Asian names an assumption . It still doesn’t refute the point that the initial selection relies on discrimination to function and that you want people with Black and Asian names to be an exception. You have no solution except some vague notion of classes about irrational hatred . The evidence suggests that it is ethnic minorities on the receiving end of discrimination in the case of the CV selection, that doesn't mean there aren't or won't be instances of discrimination going in the other direction. "It still doesn’t refute the point that the initial selection relies on discrimination to function and that you want people with Black and Asian names to be an exception." I don't want them to be the exception, I want everyone to be given an equal chance and stand or fall on merit alone. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 1, 2023 18:54:59 GMT
So if two CVs have exactly the same merit and the only difference is an exotic sounding name to an anglo-saxon sounding one, can you advise the employer on the factual evidence and observable reality as whom to choose the job should go to? I'd suggest putting them both on the interview shortlist. Why there might have been 5 better qualified people and the last was Number 6. For all you know the other 5 could have been all with international names and possibly someone thought well time to give a WASP a chance although we do not know if he is a Wasp he might be black. You are still saying that an employer should select his staff on your basis and not on his. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 1, 2023 18:56:02 GMT
Naturally if they've interviewed best they get the job. I really cannot fathom what is so contestable about the best qualified candidate getting the job based on merit alone. Because you'll just claim prejudice if not. Claiming prejudice and proving prejudice are in different galaxys |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 1, 2023 18:57:12 GMT
So are black people discriminating against CVs with African or Asian names or not ? If they are not then why should they attend these classes ? You talk in riddles . That still leaves your claim that while people discriminate against CVs with African and Asian names an assumption . It still doesn’t refute the point that the initial selection relies on discrimination to function and that you want people with Black and Asian names to be an exception. You have no solution except some vague notion of classes about irrational hatred . The evidence suggests that it is ethnic minorities on the receiving end of discrimination in the case of the CV selection, that doesn't mean there aren't or won't be instances of discrimination going in the other direction. "It still doesn’t refute the point that the initial selection relies on discrimination to function and that you want people with Black and Asian names to be an exception." I don't want them to be the exception, I want everyone to be given an equal chance and stand or fall on merit alone. So everyone that applies to every job gets an interview ? Good luck with that … |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 1, 2023 18:59:08 GMT
Well as I said. I you can argue a large majority voting Tory meant they all supported Brexit, then you can also argue a large majority voting Tory meant they all support Tory immigration figures. Just laying some ground rules, so that when we get onto building enough homes someone doesn't say we shouldn't have to. So you are saying that we should stop blaming other people while you are blaming other people ? Jeez. Precisely. We should stop blaming the wrong people and blame the right people. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 1, 2023 19:02:36 GMT
They did get Brexit done - we have left. We had already left in 2019 when the Tories said they'd get Brexit done. But you're dodging the point as usual. Tat point being the claim that the large majority for Tories is proof people continued to want Brexit done. Therefore the large majority for Tory is also proof people wanted Tory immigration figures. Yet when I made the same argument that people voted Tory in 2019 because the alternative was Corbyn, you insisted I was wrong and it was proof we all wanted Brexit (Despite numerous polls showing otherwise) So yes everyone who voted Tory surely wanted Tory immigration. Hoisted on your own petard. Well if that is what they voted for then yes it was what they wanted so it is worth a look what was said "That is why a majority Conservative Government will get Brexit done, and then introduce a firmer and fairer Australian-style points-based immigration system, so that we can decide who comes to this country on the basis of the skills they have and the contribution they can make – not where they come from. Migrants will contribute to the NHS – and pay in before they can receive benefits. Our new system gives us real control over who is coming in and out. It allows us to attract the best and brightest from all over the world. Only by establishing immigration controls and ending freedom of movement will we be able to attract the high-skilled workers we need to contribute to our economy, our communities and our public services. There will be fewer lower-skilled migrants and overall numbers will come down. And we will ensure that the British people are always in control." So yes that is what they wanted. Now you have to consider is that what they got? |
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 1, 2023 19:03:42 GMT
The evidence suggests that it is ethnic minorities on the receiving end of discrimination in the case of the CV selection, that doesn't mean there aren't or won't be instances of discrimination going in the other direction. "It still doesn’t refute the point that the initial selection relies on discrimination to function and that you want people with Black and Asian names to be an exception." I don't want them to be the exception, I want everyone to be given an equal chance and stand or fall on merit alone. So everyone that applies to every job gets an interview ? Good luck with that … Nope didn't say that. I think selection for interviews should be based on merit alone. I really don't see why that is such an apparently controversial viewpoint. |
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