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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 20, 2023 15:18:53 GMT
Although international trade and the automation that produces it is a worldwide topic, I want to focus on the UK and where it fits in to the world picture with regard to industry and our level of production efficiency, i.e. how much GDP does each worker generate. So first of all lets compile some facts. Robot are measured on the number per 10 000 workers.
Germany 397, automotive industry 1500 (second in world)
China (2022) 322 since 2019 it has jumped from 9th in the world to 5th
US (2022) 274 South Korea 1000, top in the automotive industry
07/04/2022
Sweden 289 US 255 Denmark 246 Italy 224 Belgium 211 Netherlands 209 Spain 203 France 194 Canada 126 UK 101 world average 126
UK 2017 85
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 20, 2023 16:19:47 GMT
I was trying to find out about Japan and found this page.
Have a graph.
Naturally you have to equate that with the population size to measure the actual size of the robot army. South Korea is 52M where China is 1412M.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 24, 2023 13:48:30 GMT
Just use more immigrants eh?
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Post by Orac on Nov 24, 2023 15:17:55 GMT
Building a third world economy out of first world economy.
How to turn a silk purse into sow's ear.
50% of the effort to this end seems to be destroying anything left that works.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 25, 2023 14:53:18 GMT
Between 2017 and 2020 UK robots increased by 18.8%. China's robots increased by 153.6%, which is the highest rate of increase in the world. People in government tell us we should not trade with China, but just imagine if we did. All those rich Chinese businessmen would say to their British executives, hey mate, you aught to get in some decent robots.
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 27, 2023 9:54:23 GMT
In order to need robots you need a manufacturing economy.
Thatcher destroyed that, turning us into a nation of call centres
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 27, 2023 23:30:13 GMT
In order to need robots you need a manufacturing economy. Thatcher destroyed that, turning us into a nation of call centres You could apply an Orwellian interpretation on that:
Our weakness is our strength.
Look around you. Our industry is junk. It's mostly bought up by foreign finance.
Germans were completely trashed after WW2, as were the Japs. They rebuilt and had brand new ultra modern 1950s factories. Japan has now burnt out and struggling with negative inflation. Germany specialised in chemicals and cars. They had the best mightiest fuel guzzlers around, built like brick shithouses that would hardly dent in an accident but use lots of steel, which is now pretty expensive stuff, as is the carbon tax. Oddly Japan punted on hybrids which are now seen as demonic as they piss off climate activists and are less environmentally friendly.
It's like a computer program that has been on the market for many years and as the fashions change so do the design goals of the code, but the code gets awfully messy each time it is patched up and modified. Those first to get the robots in will have the kind of robots you have to enter vector coordinates into a green screen. New ones can just be shown how to do a job by a human and then they will get it there and then. It's like old computer hardware. Computers have got so much faster, so the old ones depreciate quickly. If we start again from scratch with British finance we will have it all tuned to work optimally for today's markets and governments. We would be looking at ultra cheap running cost cars that can be fully recycled and have all the latest tech. We would also have the university courses that taught these skills. Mind you, I think we lack the teacher's teachers. It seems to me we should take lessons from the Chinese given they have more robots than anyone.
By the way, I learnt today that employers only have to pay immigrants 80% of the min wage. GB News & Co argue this is just making industry bleat "shortage of workers" so they can maintain this labour cost advantage, but unwittingly remain in the dark ages of pre-industrialisation, a bit like William Morris and his Arts and Crafts movement of the 1830s. The machines were a work of ye devil.
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 28, 2023 7:38:34 GMT
In order to need robots you need a manufacturing economy. Thatcher destroyed that, turning us into a nation of call centres You could apply an Orwellian interpretation on that:
Our weakness is our strength.
Look around you. Our industry is junk. It's mostly bought up by foreign finance.
Germans were completely trashed after WW2, as were the Japs. They rebuilt and had brand new ultra modern 1950s factories. Japan has now burnt out and struggling with negative inflation. Germany specialised in chemicals and cars. They had the best mightiest fuel guzzlers around, built like brick shithouses that would hardly dent in an accident but use lots of steel, which is now pretty expensive stuff, as is the carbon tax. Oddly Japan punted on hybrids which are now seen as demonic as they piss off climate activists and are less environmentally friendly.
It's like a computer program that has been on the market for many years and as the fashions change so do the design goals of the code, but the code gets awfully messy each time it is patched up and modified. Those first to get the robots in will have the kind of robots you have to enter vector coordinates into a green screen. New ones can just be shown how to do a job by a human and then they will get it there and then. It's like old computer hardware. Computers have got so much faster, so the old ones depreciate quickly. If we start again from scratch with British finance we will have it all tuned to work optimally for today's markets and governments. We would be looking at ultra cheap running cost cars that can be fully recycled and have all the latest tech. We would also have the university courses that taught these skills. Mind you, I think we lack the teacher's teachers. It seems to me we should take lessons from the Chinese given they have more robots than anyone.
By the way, I learnt today that employers only have to pay immigrants 80% of the min wage. GB News & Co argue this is just making industry bleat "shortage of workers" so they can maintain this labour cost advantage, but unwittingly remain in the dark ages of pre-industrialisation, a bit like William Morris and his Arts and Crafts movement of the 1830s. The machines were a work of ye devil.
I’d prune that to focus on the bits of interest but this chinese made phone is notorious for fucking that up so leaving it be …. Two issues interest me First, my real world experience of robots in automotive parts manufacture, industrial door and window manufacture, petrochemical reaction vessel manufacture, pharmaceutical manufacture and automated drug testing has provided me with an amazing revelation. The firms that made the ‘robots’ that perform these actions refuse to allow them to be ‘programmed’ by the buyers, preferring instead to rip the buyers off with suboptimal user interfaces. This is hardly new of course, all the way back in 1980 the maker of an automated radioisotope assay machine was aghast to find i’d reverse engineered the microcode and created an infinitely better user interface and assay algorithm using little more than a sinclair zx81 in machine code mode. But i am surprised how well the pharma industry in particular has been stitched up… Second, where the hell did you hear immigrant labour only gets 80% of the minimum wage ?? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 28, 2023 12:36:47 GMT
You could apply an Orwellian interpretation on that:
Our weakness is our strength.
Look around you. Our industry is junk. It's mostly bought up by foreign finance.
Germans were completely trashed after WW2, as were the Japs. They rebuilt and had brand new ultra modern 1950s factories. Japan has now burnt out and struggling with negative inflation. Germany specialised in chemicals and cars. They had the best mightiest fuel guzzlers around, built like brick shithouses that would hardly dent in an accident but use lots of steel, which is now pretty expensive stuff, as is the carbon tax. Oddly Japan punted on hybrids which are now seen as demonic as they piss off climate activists and are less environmentally friendly.
It's like a computer program that has been on the market for many years and as the fashions change so do the design goals of the code, but the code gets awfully messy each time it is patched up and modified. Those first to get the robots in will have the kind of robots you have to enter vector coordinates into a green screen. New ones can just be shown how to do a job by a human and then they will get it there and then. It's like old computer hardware. Computers have got so much faster, so the old ones depreciate quickly. If we start again from scratch with British finance we will have it all tuned to work optimally for today's markets and governments. We would be looking at ultra cheap running cost cars that can be fully recycled and have all the latest tech. We would also have the university courses that taught these skills. Mind you, I think we lack the teacher's teachers. It seems to me we should take lessons from the Chinese given they have more robots than anyone.
By the way, I learnt today that employers only have to pay immigrants 80% of the min wage. GB News & Co argue this is just making industry bleat "shortage of workers" so they can maintain this labour cost advantage, but unwittingly remain in the dark ages of pre-industrialisation, a bit like William Morris and his Arts and Crafts movement of the 1830s. The machines were a work of ye devil.
I’d prune that to focus on the bits of interest but this chinese made phone is notorious for fucking that up so leaving it be …. Two issues interest me First, my real world experience of robots in automotive parts manufacture, industrial door and window manufacture, petrochemical reaction vessel manufacture, pharmaceutical manufacture and automated drug testing has provided me with an amazing revelation. The firms that made the ‘robots’ that perform these actions refuse to allow them to be ‘programmed’ by the buyers, preferring instead to rip the buyers off with suboptimal user interfaces. This is hardly new of course, all the way back in 1980 the maker of an automated radioisotope assay machine was aghast to find i’d reverse engineered the microcode and created an infinitely better user interface and assay algorithm using little more than a sinclair zx81 in machine code mode. But i am surprised how well the pharma industry in particular has been stitched up… Second, where the hell did you hear immigrant labour only gets 80% of the minimum wage ?? I hear Germans are pretty bad when it comes to paying through the nose if you have one of their machines and you need some service. It's the old captive market trick. Any firm that practices such dodgy practices should be punished severely by the buyer. Over in China you can just download an alternative program, put it onto flash memory and plug it in. If the controller goes up in smoke you whip it out and just plug another one in which has the right drive spec for the motors and away you go. They don't have one "competitive market", they have three: one for the complete robot, one for the spares(controllers, stepper motors etc) and one for the software. No blighter can hold you to ransom, and another thing is a firm might be ace building robots but crap at software, so the interchangeability of everything means output is cheap and good. Indeed I would reckon British factory managers do not like robots because they see them as machines and any machines in this country will empty your bank account, like the dreaded printer scam where ink is more expensive than gold by weight.
Regarding the 80% wage figure, it was a passing comment which I think was on a GB News clip. It might have just been a policy proposal, but it sounded to me like it was going to or is happening. I confess i know nothing about all this employment legislation crap as very fortunately I do not have to deal with it. I do know British productivity is one of the lowest. When looking at that the numbers to look at is real GDP per hour worked, not per capita, because we get variations on hours per week and percentage of country in work etc.
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 28, 2023 13:31:31 GMT
I think if i caused the robots on the pharma production line to start smoking someone might have something to say.
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 29, 2023 8:25:36 GMT
I’d prune that to focus on the bits of interest but this chinese made phone is notorious for fucking that up so leaving it be …. Two issues interest me First, my real world experience of robots in automotive parts manufacture, industrial door and window manufacture, petrochemical reaction vessel manufacture, pharmaceutical manufacture and automated drug testing has provided me with an amazing revelation. The firms that made the ‘robots’ that perform these actions refuse to allow them to be ‘programmed’ by the buyers, preferring instead to rip the buyers off with suboptimal user interfaces. This is hardly new of course, all the way back in 1980 the maker of an automated radioisotope assay machine was aghast to find i’d reverse engineered the microcode and created an infinitely better user interface and assay algorithm using little more than a sinclair zx81 in machine code mode. But i am surprised how well the pharma industry in particular has been stitched up… Second, where the hell did you hear immigrant labour only gets 80% of the minimum wage ?? I hear Germans are pretty bad when it comes to paying through the nose if you have one of their machines and you need some service. It's the old captive market trick. Any firm that practices such dodgy practices should be punished severely by the buyer. Over in China you can just download an alternative program, put it onto flash memory and plug it in. If the controller goes up in smoke you whip it out and just plug another one in which has the right drive spec for the motors and away you go. They don't have one "competitive market", they have three: one for the complete robot, one for the spares(controllers, stepper motors etc) and one for the software. No blighter can hold you to ransom, and another thing is a firm might be ace building robots but crap at software, so the interchangeability of everything means output is cheap and good. Indeed I would reckon British factory managers do not like robots because they see them as machines and any machines in this country will empty your bank account, like the dreaded printer scam where ink is more expensive than gold by weight.
Regarding the 80% wage figure, it was a passing comment which I think was on a GB News clip. It might have just been a policy proposal, but it sounded to me like it was going to or is happening. I confess i know nothing about all this employment legislation crap as very fortunately I do not have to deal with it. I do know British productivity is one of the lowest. When looking at that the numbers to look at is real GDP per hour worked, not per capita, because we get variations on hours per week and percentage of country in work etc.
At the risk of diverting the thread, I think I now understand where you got the 80% figure from
While perusing the BBC review of this morning's papers I picked up a story on the front page of The Times
This story (reported in several other papers too, but i'll stick with The Times) says Sunak is coming under pressure to scrap the "Shortage Occupation List" a scam whereby so called difficulties in recruiting home grown staff allow employers to recruit immigrants for 80% of the GOING RATE for the job.
The amount actually paid cannot be less than the minimum wage amount per hour, and the amount actually paid must exceed the amount (whose actual value i now forget) set in our current legislation below which the person will not be permitted to legally migrate to the UK. Those rules have actually worked against a musician friend of mine who within the last fortnight emigrated to the Phillipines in order to marry a woman he has known for some years who has roots there but whose IT skills do NOT command the required rate for her to be allowed to enter this country legally and be married here.
Whilst most of the beneficiaries of this scam are brain surgeons and makers of weapons of mass destruction who demand high prices for their skills which is why there are moves to undercut the locals in this fashion, I suspect part of the reason for the pressure to scrap the scam is that thanks to Jezza The Hunt's latest NMW hike, certain occupations on the list at the lower end of the scale cannot now be paid 80% of the going rate as that would actually fall below the new NMW
Amyway, the point was it's not 80% of the NMW. Although i wouldn't put it past GB News to have said it was
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 29, 2023 9:18:29 GMT
I think if i caused the robots on the pharma production line to start smoking someone might have something to say. The Beagle's Union would be up in arms. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2023 9:31:58 GMT
I think if i caused the robots on the pharma production line to start smoking someone might have something to say. The Beagle's Union would be up in arms. ^^ this one. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 29, 2023 10:49:51 GMT
I think if i caused the robots on the pharma production line to start smoking someone might have something to say. The Beagle's Union would be up in arms. i dint have the authority to do that any more. One of my last communications with the home office in connection with my 1876 Licence To Experiment On Living Animals required me to cease and desist tobacco toxicity experimentation and required me to apply for an extension to my license authorisation if my work required experimentation on cats, dogs or primates. Fortunately sheep pigs goats donkeys horses elephants rodents and a whole ark load of others were still allowed I never did query if football hooligans and rapists came under the label ‘primates’. Maybe i should have. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 29, 2023 12:41:10 GMT
The Beagle's Union would be up in arms. i dint have the authority to do that any more. One of my last communications with the home office in connection with my 1876 Licence To Experiment On Living Animals required me to cease and desist tobacco toxicity experimentation and required me to apply for an extension to my license authorisation if my work required experimentation on cats, dogs or primates. Fortunately sheep pigs goats donkeys horses elephants rodents and a whole ark load of others were still allowed I never did query if football hooligans and rapists came under the label ‘primates’. Maybe i should have. Must be hard to get the elephants these days. |
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