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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 12:06:58 GMT
My views here have been aired frequently. That we could easily have the NHS of today without immigration if we were prepared to pay for it. At last ! An admission that mass immigration equals cheap labour ! 👍 Never denied it. Its about jobs Brits wont do for the money on offer and the inability of said businesses to pay more. I have always argued that these businesses would fold if forced to pay more. Now I am proved right by the number of care homes closing, dentists going private etc etc. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 26, 2023 12:11:46 GMT
At last ! An admission that mass immigration equals cheap labour ! 👍 Never denied it. Its about jobs Brits wont do for the money on offer and the inability of said businesses to pay more. I have always argued that these businesses would fold if forced to pay more. Now I am proved right by the number of care homes closing, dentists going private etc etc. just another excuse to undercut wages . I remember my Dad telling me about when adult workers were laid off ( in the 1930s) because they could get younger men to do the same work for less. You caring lefties are no better than those bosses . |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 12:16:11 GMT
Never denied it. Its about jobs Brits wont do for the money on offer and the inability of said businesses to pay more. I have always argued that these businesses would fold if forced to pay more. Now I am proved right by the number of care homes closing, dentists going private etc etc. just another excuse to undercut wages . I remember my Dad telling me about when adult workers were laid off ( in the 1930s) because they could get younger men to do the same work for less. You caring lefties are no better than those bosses . Yes. We don't want to pay more tax so our government brings in cheap labour. Get what you pay for. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 26, 2023 12:26:11 GMT
just another excuse to undercut wages . I remember my Dad telling me about when adult workers were laid off ( in the 1930s) because they could get younger men to do the same work for less. You caring lefties are no better than those bosses . Yes. We don't want to pay more tax so our government brings in cheap labour. Get what you pay for. But you pay the tax anyway, bringing in cheap labour means someone sitting on benefits not economically active who could have done the job, it also means in work benefits for the immigrant worker and extra health care, education and services etc for another family. Low pay probably means they pay little tax. It is an unsustainable ponzi scheme where cause and effect are ignored. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 26, 2023 12:27:32 GMT
Yes. We don't want to pay more tax so our government brings in cheap labour. Get what you pay for. But you pay the tax anyway, bringing in cheap labour means someone sitting on benefits not economically active who could have done the job, it also means in work benefits for the immigrant worker and extra health care, education and services etc for another family. Low pay probably means they pay little tax. It is an unsustainable ponzi scheme where cause and effect are ignored. Exactly |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 13:25:59 GMT
Yes. We don't want to pay more tax so our government brings in cheap labour. Get what you pay for. But you pay the tax anyway, bringing in cheap labour means someone sitting on benefits not economically active who could have done the job, it also means in work benefits for the immigrant worker and extra health care, education and services etc for another family. Low pay probably means they pay little tax. It is an unsustainable ponzi scheme where cause and effect are ignored. How MUCH tax you pay. Pretending you could force the person on benefits in Glasgow to travel to Cambridgeshire and pick fruit is just another way to dodge the elephant in the room. I've experienced my share of interviews with people forced to attend or get their benefits cut. I wouldn't employ a single one of them. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 26, 2023 16:13:44 GMT
But you pay the tax anyway, bringing in cheap labour means someone sitting on benefits not economically active who could have done the job, it also means in work benefits for the immigrant worker and extra health care, education and services etc for another family. Low pay probably means they pay little tax. It is an unsustainable ponzi scheme where cause and effect are ignored. How MUCH tax you pay. Pretending you could force the person on benefits in Glasgow to travel to Cambridgeshire and pick fruit is just another way to dodge the elephant in the room. I've experienced my share of interviews with people forced to attend or get their benefits cut. I wouldn't employ a single one of them. Well do you think in terms of straight costs that keeping an individual on benefits and bringing in probably three or four extra bodies needing in work benefits, health, education and services is cheaper to the taxpayer than taking one individual off said benefits through significantly increased pay and then the consumer has to pay a significant increase in the cost of whatever produce was picked. Even if pay is ramped up 50% in terms of costs it is cheaper in the long run for all taxpayers saving on working tax credit, child allowance. housing benefit, education and probably health care. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 16:22:36 GMT
How MUCH tax you pay. Pretending you could force the person on benefits in Glasgow to travel to Cambridgeshire and pick fruit is just another way to dodge the elephant in the room. I've experienced my share of interviews with people forced to attend or get their benefits cut. I wouldn't employ a single one of them. Well do you think in terms of straight costs that keeping an individual on benefits and bringing in probably three or four extra bodies needing in work benefits, health, education and services is cheaper to the taxpayer than taking one individual off said benefits through significantly increased pay and then the consumer has to pay a significant increase in the cost of whatever produce was picked. Even if pay is ramped up 50% in terms of costs it is cheaper in the long run for all taxpayers saving on working tax credit, child allowance. housing benefit, education and probably health care. Sorry Sandy I don't get this, probably makes perfect sense but not to me. Can you expand please? |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 26, 2023 16:42:54 GMT
Well do you think in terms of straight costs that keeping an individual on benefits and bringing in probably three or four extra bodies needing in work benefits, health, education and services is cheaper to the taxpayer than taking one individual off said benefits through significantly increased pay and then the consumer has to pay a significant increase in the cost of whatever produce was picked. Even if pay is ramped up 50% in terms of costs it is cheaper in the long run for all taxpayers saving on working tax credit, child allowance. housing benefit, education and probably health care. Sorry Sandy I don't get this, probably makes perfect sense but not to me. Can you expand please? Scenario one. Cheap labour brought in from abroad one man, One potential UK worker stays on unemployment and benefits. Cheap immigrant brings in family. Needs in work benefits, education for children and health care straightaway. Pays taxes at low rate if at all. Puts pressure on health care, education, housing. Food prices remain stable but taxes have to rise to meet extra needs of immigrant family. Scenario two. Employers raises UK wages to attract UK worker. One man uk worker takes job, comes off benefits, money saved. No need for cheap immigrant labour, no in work benefits (money saved), no need for education (money saved) no need for immediate health care (money saved). No extra pressure on housing, schools, health clinics, hospitals ( money and angst saved). Tax take from new worker greater than tax take from one cheap import. EDIT Sorry missed a bit food price increases |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 16:57:53 GMT
Sorry Sandy I don't get this, probably makes perfect sense but not to me. Can you expand please? Scenario one. Cheap labour brought in from abroad one man, One potential UK worker stays on unemployment and benefits. Cheap immigrant brings in family. Needs in work benefits, education for children and health care straightaway. Pays taxes at low rate if at all. Puts pressure on health care, education, housing. Food prices remain stable but taxes have to rise to meet extra needs of immigrant family. Scenario two. Employers raises UK wages to attract UK worker. One man uk worker takes job, comes off benefits, money saved. No need for cheap immigrant labour, no in work benefits (money saved), no need for education (money saved) no need for immediate health care (money saved). No extra pressure on housing, schools, health clinics, hospitals ( money and angst saved). Tax take from new worker greater than tax take from one cheap import. EDIT Sorry missed a bit food price increases The bit that's wrong is the assumption that the employer can increase prices/wages. Its a very common mistake oft repeated in the media. But its not true, trust me we are already charging the maximum we can for our product, why wouldn't we? So the question is how do you force the public to pay a higher price for their apples when they can buy them cheaper from Spain? Perhaps you give the company tax breaks to employ UK workers? But that is open to abuse. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 26, 2023 17:40:08 GMT
Scenario one. Cheap labour brought in from abroad one man, One potential UK worker stays on unemployment and benefits. Cheap immigrant brings in family. Needs in work benefits, education for children and health care straightaway. Pays taxes at low rate if at all. Puts pressure on health care, education, housing. Food prices remain stable but taxes have to rise to meet extra needs of immigrant family. Scenario two. Employers raises UK wages to attract UK worker. One man uk worker takes job, comes off benefits, money saved. No need for cheap immigrant labour, no in work benefits (money saved), no need for education (money saved) no need for immediate health care (money saved). No extra pressure on housing, schools, health clinics, hospitals ( money and angst saved). Tax take from new worker greater than tax take from one cheap import. EDIT Sorry missed a bit food price increases The bit that's wrong is the assumption that the employer can increase prices/wages. Its a very common mistake oft repeated in the media. But its not true, trust me we are already charging the maximum we can for our product, why wouldn't we? So the question is how do you force the public to pay a higher price for their apples when they can buy them cheaper from Spain? Perhaps you give the company tax breaks to employ UK workers? But that is open to abuse. Trust you? Hmm? I seem to recall we were forced to buy EU food through the CAP with tarifs being imposed on those items from other countries including apples. Why was it right and proper for the EEC to protect its market yet impossible for teh UK to do on its own? The detail of how one goes about it is obviously a question but in the first instance you have to accept the principle and I see only a win win. In reality what we are doing now by allowing in cheap labour is unsustainable so we have to overcome the barriers that those who only have their own self interests at heart try to erect. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 21:32:52 GMT
The bit that's wrong is the assumption that the employer can increase prices/wages. Its a very common mistake oft repeated in the media. But its not true, trust me we are already charging the maximum we can for our product, why wouldn't we? So the question is how do you force the public to pay a higher price for their apples when they can buy them cheaper from Spain? Perhaps you give the company tax breaks to employ UK workers? But that is open to abuse. Trust you? Hmm? I seem to recall we were forced to buy EU food through the CAP with tarifs being imposed on those items from other countries including apples. Why was it right and proper for the EEC to protect its market yet impossible for teh UK to do on its own? Trust me, in the sense of using your own intelligence to ask why any company would not charge the most they could. I literally explained why its more difficult for a single country. By all means challenge what I said, but don't act like I didn't say it. To clarify, Is your idea to force the British to buy food grown here at whatever cost by preventing them buying food from abroad? |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 27, 2023 10:18:40 GMT
Trust you? Hmm? I seem to recall we were forced to buy EU food through the CAP with tarifs being imposed on those items from other countries including apples. Why was it right and proper for the EEC to protect its market yet impossible for teh UK to do on its own? Trust me, in the sense of using your own intelligence to ask why any company would not charge the most they could. I literally explained why its more difficult for a single country. By all means challenge what I said, but don't act like I didn't say it. To clarify, Is your idea to force the British to buy food grown here at whatever cost by preventing them buying food from abroad? As I keep explaining if tariffs are part of the process in ensuring British workers are encouraged to take a job then that may need to be done. The most important point is to get British workers into jobs and stop teh endless cycle of mass immigration that may be 'good for teh economy' but is a disaster for the country. That does not mean any specific action has to be taken but circumstances will dictate the measures necessary. Food is a basic necessity it is idiotic to rely on foreign producers for basics. Most especially when that is part of teh process of destroying our country. |
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Post by piglet on Nov 27, 2023 11:05:49 GMT
Shouldnt the Tories have been doing what they will do all along, which is.
N0 1, Control immigration.
2 Making work pay, and not paying people not to work.
The Tories are either imbeciles or reds.
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 27, 2023 13:04:44 GMT
Shouldnt the Tories have been doing what they will do all along, which is. N0 1, Control immigration. 2 Making work pay, and not paying people not to work. The Tories are either imbeciles or reds. The problem is, many Tories are not actually Tories. |
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