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Post by piglet on Nov 10, 2023 11:41:30 GMT
Imagine Britain from the early 1980s managing immigration effectively, not the open door policy of Blair. School places for everyone, no clogged roads, health care for everyone, proper social services, no overcrowded cities, we would have an army, yes, and an airforce. The immigrants that come would be assimlitated properly. We would still have a green belt, we would still have London.
Little or no crime.
ETC.
Instead we have THIS...........
We have been betrayed by every government since Blair. The roads are a disgrace...pot holes...... yet to oppose is to get arrested, this country is insane. And here is the proof. A man robbed a disabled man of a thousand pounds in the street after getting his wallet out to give him three quid as the man was begging, the disabled man was in a chair.
The man finally got four years.... after 181 offences. 181. Un punished.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 10, 2023 13:04:41 GMT
It's rather facile to pile all the blame on the Blairites, as Andrew Roberts pointed out in Eminent Churchillians, the rot had set in decades earlier:
The record shows that Churchill, for a variety of reasons, took no effective action to staunch the flow, nor did his successor Eden and neither did his successor, Macmillan, at least until very late in the day.
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Post by Hutchyns on Nov 10, 2023 13:31:57 GMT
Interesting as piglet's invitation to use our imagination is, the crux of the matter is that as election after election, after election, came around .... it was the responsibility of the electorate to imagine what Britain would be like if they continued to vote for either of two main parties with a proven record of overseeing sharp rises in immigration while airly dismissing any concerns of opponents of such a policy.
The public's imagination clearly informed them that the Britain that would most likely be built by decades more of either Labour or Tory Government was the way to go, and so they continued to put those same parties back into power every time they strolled along to the ballot box. Had they imagined a better path was available, I'm sure their voting habits would have indicated that way before now. Deciding to use your imagination when it's much too late to turn the clock back is a bit futile ...... certainly for older folks, but for those of younger years it might be an interesting exercise, and to ask their parents or grandparents why they kept voting to continue down the same path even when the evidence of where it was leading must have become blindingly obvious ?
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Post by Orac on Nov 10, 2023 13:36:22 GMT
It's rather facile to pile all the blame on the Blairites, as Andrew Roberts pointed out in Eminent Churchillians, the rot had set in decades earlier: The record shows that Churchill, for a variety of reasons, took no effective action to staunch the flow, nor did his successor Eden and neither did his successor, Macmillan, at least until very late in the day. I'm not sure which of his many histories/ memoirs etc this appears in, but i think Churchill confides in one that, as prime minister, he did try to stop it, but found a brick wall of silence on the issue no matter how hard he pushed for answers
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 10, 2023 13:57:41 GMT
Ian Gilmour, in 1955 the owner and editor of The Spectator records in his own biography the following remark made to him by Churchill about 'coloured' immigration:
"I think it is the most important subject facing this country, but I cannot get any of my ministers to take any notice"
In mitigation it has to be recognised that by that time Churchill was well over 80 and as Roberts comments:
'After his stroke in July 1953, Churchill was a very different beast from the man of wartime 'Action This Day' decisiveness.'
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Post by piglet on Nov 10, 2023 13:58:08 GMT
Not all immigration is bad, indeed i am a first generation immigrant of Beloruss and Italian parents, i have led a useful, fully employed life. When i was a child there was a large eastern european and Italian community in Cambridge, which has now all but dissapeared, i think there was a false belief that all immigrants would be absorbed in the same way. It has not. The west wants to tear down boundaries, borders, like the Schengen agreement in the EU, the govern ment wants to end Britain, France, you name it.
Biden has an open border in the USA in the south.
It makes no sense. Destroy the countries that provide wealth, progress, safety? and turn the lot into a multi cultural hell hole where everyone hates everyone else. And encourage communities to preserve their identity, but not the country in which they live.
The natural inhabitants will be racist. Conversely peace would be preserved if immigrants adopted British values. Imagine that.
Labour, the Tories, lib dems want anarchy.
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 10, 2023 20:05:50 GMT
You ever noticed how nobody ever lives in a golden age, they just remember one?
I'm old enough to remember the 80s and I remember plenty of older people then saying that the country had gone to the dogs and things were so much better in their day. I'd bet my life older people were saying the same things when they were kids.
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Post by Bentley on Nov 10, 2023 20:16:46 GMT
You ever noticed how nobody ever lives in a golden age, they just remember one? I'm old enough to remember the 80s and I remember plenty of older people then saying that the country had gone to the dogs and things were so much better in their day. I'd bet my life older people were saying the same things when they were kids. I doubt it . The best time for boomers was the late 60s to late 70s. Their parents were generally war babies or war babies parents . The 80s was the time the bubbie started to burst .
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 10, 2023 22:41:05 GMT
Mme D and oneself often remark to each other on how fortunate we were to have had our formative years in the 1950s and 1960s.
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 13, 2023 11:09:04 GMT
It's rather facile to pile all the blame on the Blairites, as Andrew Roberts pointed out in Eminent Churchillians, the rot had set in decades earlier: The record shows that Churchill, for a variety of reasons, took no effective action to staunch the flow, nor did his successor Eden and neither did his successor, Macmillan, at least until very late in the day. The fact of the matter though is Britain had lost rather a lot of its able bodied men in two world wars twenty years apart and Rosie the riveter couldn’t be everywhere and do everything. The difference between immigration in the fifties and under Blair is there was a job for anyone who wanted it in the fifties and more to spare.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 13, 2023 11:37:45 GMT
The labour shortage was essentially resolved by the admission of a quarter million Eastern Europeans, principally Poles and Ukrainians under the Labour government in the late forties. Britain also had open access to its traditional 'reserve army of labour' in Ireland which was subject to no immigration controls at all.
In 1949 the Royal Commission on Population reported reported its conclusions in the summer of 1949. This expressed concerns about a future shortfall of people of working age, estimated to be 140,000 annually. It recommended a 'carefully constructed' immigration programme to cover this shortfall, but then cautioned that such a policy "could only be welcomed without reserve if the immigrants were of good human stock and were not prevented by their race or religion from intermarrying with the host population and merging within it (Spencer 56). Geddes (43) notes that the Commission underlined the official perspective that the alien European migrant workers were 'racially compatible' while the ostensibly British colonial workers were not.
At the behest of the Colonial Office an Interdepartmental Committee on Employment of Coloured Surplus Workers from the Colonies was formed to look into the matter, however its report in July 1949 reflected negatively on the ability of colonial workers to provide the skills and work attitude needed in Britain at the time. Nevertheless, a 'pilot scheme' was authorised to bring in 33 Barbadian women to work in the health service. This turned out to be the sole example of such a scheme actually being implemented during Labour's period in office.
The myth that the Windrush Generation were summoned by governments of the day to rebuild post-war Britain is just that, a myth.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 25, 2023 8:23:25 GMT
It's rather facile to pile all the blame on the Blairites, as Andrew Roberts pointed out in Eminent Churchillians, the rot had set in decades earlier: The record shows that Churchill, for a variety of reasons, took no effective action to staunch the flow, nor did his successor Eden and neither did his successor, Macmillan, at least until very late in the day. The fact of the matter though is Britain had lost rather a lot of its able bodied men in two world wars twenty years apart and Rosie the riveter couldn’t be everywhere and do everything. The difference between immigration in the fifties and under Blair is there was a job for anyone who wanted it in the fifties and more to spare. ln the cold war when we feared for the planets future. Another golden age. But you accidentally raise a good point. We all look back at our carefree days as the golden age.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2023 10:52:17 GMT
The fact of the matter though is Britain had lost rather a lot of its able bodied men in two world wars twenty years apart and Rosie the riveter couldn’t be everywhere and do everything. The difference between immigration in the fifties and under Blair is there was a job for anyone who wanted it in the fifties and more to spare. ln the cold war when we feared for the planets future. Another golden age. But you accidentally raise a good point. We all look back at our carefree days as the golden age. If you're going to live in fear then you're not living your life.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 25, 2023 16:01:05 GMT
ln the cold war when we feared for the planets future. Another golden age. But you accidentally raise a good point. We all look back at our carefree days as the golden age. If you're going to live in fear then you're not living your life. Agreed. Though anyone who lived in those times remembers how scary it was. But to be young then was to imagine you could solve it all and move ahead, that's why we think the years of our youth are golden.
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Post by walterpaisley on Nov 25, 2023 18:18:57 GMT
You ever noticed how nobody ever lives in a golden age, they just remember one? EVERY time in history, since ancient Greece, has harkened back to a "Golden Age". Shakespeare has characters soliloquising about it (Justice Shallow, John of Gaunt, etc). Gibbon named the period of the Roman Principate as a "Golden Age". It gets mentions in Dickens, Poe, and Stephen King.. That people often state that the Golden Age existed within their OWN lifespan (and often thirty to fifty years ago) seems suspiciously personalised, to say the least.
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