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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 3, 2023 8:14:23 GMT
I don't understand why some people think Elon Musk is clever - and that he's some kind of guru. He's just an entrepreneur who's willing to place very large bets. And you don't have to be clever to build electric cars - It's far harder to make conventional ICE cars. Anyone can build EVs. Also Musk isn't an expert on rockets - he hires people who are to build his spacecraft. He knows nothing about them.
So why did Sunak invite him to his daft AI "summit"? And why does anyone take any notice of his attention seeking predictions? I remember some decades ago we were told that computers would mean we wouldn't have to work. It's bollocks. The simple fact is that computers are good at doing the same thing over and over again very quickly - and AI is very good at recognising patterns (which is the basis of science) - but neither are going to take over from human intelligence or cause vast unemployment (except in some niche areas).
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Post by Orac on Nov 3, 2023 8:21:26 GMT
Oddly enough, I think Musk is more or less correct about AI, but it is pretty daft in many other technically related areas.
Despite his station and alleged autism, he is an artistic personality type.
On the specific problem of mass unemployment, it is hard to say where it would go. If unemployed people still have needs that aren't being met by the matrix, then they will start employing each other to meet those needs
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 3, 2023 8:21:37 GMT
AI is like driverless cars (something else that Elon Musk keeps telling us is just around the corner), they sound great but the reality is somewhat less than optimal..
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 3, 2023 8:23:51 GMT
As a Bid Writer I can see AI taking my job in a few years. A mate of mine who works in recruitment says the same.
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2023 8:57:17 GMT
I don't understand why some people think Elon Musk is clever - and that he's some kind of guru. He's just an entrepreneur who's willing to place very large bets. And you don't have to be clever to build electric cars - It's far harder to make conventional ICE cars. Anyone can build EVs. Also Musk isn't an expert on rockets - he hires people who are to build his spacecraft. He knows nothing about them. So why did Sunak invite him to his daft AI "summit"? And why does anyone take any notice of his attention seeking predictions? I remember some decades ago we were told that computers would mean we wouldn't have to work. It's bollocks. The simple fact is that computers are good at doing the same thing over and over again very quickly - and AI is very good at recognising patterns (which is the basis of science) - but neither are going to take over from human intelligence or cause vast unemployment (except in some niche areas). Musk does what a lot of successful entrepreneurs do, he pays people to do what he cant do himself. His strength is his determination to make things happen. He is obviously good at what he does, but he doesn't come over to me as the most intelligent of people. I personally think he has some form psychological infliction that compels him to do what he does, i.e. a psychological driver, plus a good imagination. Which might be relevant in the world of AI, or it might be that Sunak just isn't too bright.
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Post by Orac on Nov 3, 2023 9:26:12 GMT
AI is like driverless cars (something else that Elon Musk keeps telling us is just around the corner), they sound great but the reality is somewhat less than optimal.. Iirc, Elon changed his tune on this a couple of years ago. His updated view was that properly driver-less cars would require the bulk of general AI problem to be solved. I think this is a more realistic view than most. In my view, we will have 'robot' doctors and lawyers before we have cars that will take you home while you are asleep
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 3, 2023 10:05:38 GMT
While i fully recognise the benefits of AI
The extended world of AI removes the opportunity for personal pride.
And that is very dangerous.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 10:12:47 GMT
I don't want AI developed, particularly. I would just like current systems to work better. If AI meant no-one has to work, does that mean the hospital waiting list would no longer exist? It's nonsense!
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Post by Dogburger on Nov 3, 2023 10:22:01 GMT
AI has come on leaps and bounds in recent years , probably to much too soon and needs reigning in . Their have been some brilliant advancements in medical science because of it but we don't really want it writing our dissertations or building our houses .
Mans got to work ,have some purpose in life beyond leisure
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Post by Orac on Nov 3, 2023 10:23:02 GMT
While i fully recognise the benefits of AI The extended world of AI removes the opportunity for personal pride. And that is very dangerous. Some might scoff at this notion, but i feel it hints at something very deep. Humans have always up 'til now told their own story and have done what they did in that story because they weren't acting a role in a recreation. In fact humans define reality as a struggle against things that there is no option to avoid. If the option to avoid exists, is this is the end of human reality?
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 4, 2023 8:50:25 GMT
I don't understand why some people think Elon Musk is clever - and that he's some kind of guru. He's just an entrepreneur who's willing to place very large bets. And you don't have to be clever to build electric cars - It's far harder to make conventional ICE cars. Anyone can build EVs. Also Musk isn't an expert on rockets - he hires people who are to build his spacecraft. He knows nothing about them. So why did Sunak invite him to his daft AI "summit"? And why does anyone take any notice of his attention seeking predictions? I remember some decades ago we were told that computers would mean we wouldn't have to work. It's bollocks. The simple fact is that computers are good at doing the same thing over and over again very quickly - and AI is very good at recognising patterns (which is the basis of science) - but neither are going to take over from human intelligence or cause vast unemployment (except in some niche areas). Musk does what a lot of successful entrepreneurs do, he pays people to do what he cant do himself. His strength is his determination to make things happen. He is obviously good at what he does, but he doesn't come over to me as the most intelligent of people. I personally think he has some form psychological infliction that compels him to do what he does, i.e. a psychological driver, plus a good imagination. Which might be relevant in the world of AI, or it might be that Sunak just isn't too bright. Yes. Musk has huge drive and people who work for him have to work very hard. We should put him in charge of our civil service. And I don't think Sunak is very clever. He's a highly competent businessman with a good understanding of finance. He'd make a good governor of the BoE. But he's not a good PM.
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 4, 2023 9:10:50 GMT
AI is like driverless cars (something else that Elon Musk keeps telling us is just around the corner), they sound great but the reality is somewhat less than optimal.. Iirc, Elon changed his tune on this a couple of years ago. His updated view was that properly driver-less cars would require the bulk of general AI problem to be solved. I think this is a more realistic view than most. In my view, we will have 'robot' doctors and lawyers before we have cars that will take you home while you are asleepI agree with this. In particular I think lawyers are very easily replaced by AI bots. The prerequisite for being a good lawyer is a very good memory of vast amounts of case law and this is exactly what an AI bot has - it has the whole internet at its disposal. Also the algorithms to process the data would be relatively simple. Great intelligence is NOT required. Self drive cars will be very difficult, especially with our road network. The thing about AI (IMO) is that it has access to vast amounts of data (i.e. a very good memory) and it is very good at some things. One thing it's good at is pattern recognition. So it seems to be very good at music for example. If you want a piece of music written in the style of Mozart you can give it a selection of music written by him and it can analyse patterns and produce similar stuff - even though the people who wrote the programs it uses know nothing about Mozart or even music. But I tend to think that AI a bit like getting a dog to sniff out people who have Covid. Dogs have a very highly developed sense of smell but they obviously have no knowledge of Covid. But what you can do is present the dog with various people who have Covid and various who don't and reward the dog for picking those with Covid. But we have no idea what the dog has detected. Just like the music, we can get an answer from the AI but we're none the wiser as to what makes Mozart sound like Mozart. The thing is that I don't think this makes the dog intelligent. And I've yet to see any examples of AI that indicate actual intelligence. Or maybe I'm just too stupid to understand it.
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Post by Orac on Nov 4, 2023 11:50:30 GMT
Iirc, Elon changed his tune on this a couple of years ago. His updated view was that properly driver-less cars would require the bulk of general AI problem to be solved. I think this is a more realistic view than most. In my view, we will have 'robot' doctors and lawyers before we have cars that will take you home while you are asleepI agree with this. In particular I think lawyers are very easily replaced by AI bots. The prerequisite for being a good lawyer is a very good memory of vast amounts of case law and this is exactly what an AI bot has - it has the whole internet at its disposal. Also the algorithms to process the data would be relatively simple. Great intelligence is NOT required. Self drive cars will be very difficult, especially with our road network. The thing about AI (IMO) is that it has access to vast amounts of data (i.e. a very good memory) and it is very good at some things. One thing it's good at is pattern recognition. So it seems to be very good at music for example. If you want a piece of music written in the style of Mozart you can give it a selection of music written by him and it can analyse patterns and produce similar stuff - even though the people who wrote the programs it uses know nothing about Mozart or even music. But I tend to think that AI a bit like getting a dog to sniff out people who have Covid. Dogs have a very highly developed sense of smell but they obviously have no knowledge of Covid. But what you can do is present the dog with various people who have Covid and various who don't and reward the dog for picking those with Covid. But we have no idea what the dog has detected. Just like the music, we can get an answer from the AI but we're none the wiser as to what makes Mozart sound like Mozart. The thing is that I don't think this makes the dog intelligent. And I've yet to see any examples of AI that indicate actual intelligence. Or maybe I'm just too stupid to understand it. I think this is really interesting and your view of the current AI situation totally aligns with mine. The AIs that are causing a stir currently are literally advanced sorting processes with feedback. The sniffer dog analogy is very good - note the dog is trained to behave a certain way upon a certain complex input. An AI sniffs 20% Mozart in a sound but has no idea at all what violin or piano is - in fact, it has no idea what anything is or what a world is or that it is in a world - it literally has no idea at all. However, here is where our views may part. I suspect (fear) that, from a purely materialist (black box) standpoint, this distinction may be irrelevant. Bear in mind that, from this materialist standpoint, your mind must also be made of components that have no idea at all. That, at some point, there will nothing at all we can measure that can show any important gap between a human with, what it calls, 'ideas' and a mechanistic sorting procedure that has been honed by a feedback loop. I freely admit that this prospect gives me a shiver worse that watching the Twilight Zone on a dark stormy night all alone in a haunted castle.
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Post by Dubdrifter on Nov 8, 2023 10:03:16 GMT
Remember … AI was conceived, designed and funded by a ruling elite of non-Humanists whose interest is first to make most of Humanity redundant, imprisoned and then euthanised.
They are engineering many ways to do that genocide now … wars(nuclear and other), pestilence, sanctions inflation creating homelessness, chemical spraying, water shortage, water glut(floods - exacerbated by secret geo-weathering programmes since WW2?)), essential drug shortages + starvation, … and exploiting atmosphere damage (thru rainforest destruction) which will collectively exacerbate solar flare/ electro-magnetic storm vulnerability … which will periodically break AI … supporting an increasingly ‘disabled’ population … locked down in 15 min cities.
In the near future … your mobile phone breaking may stop you buying food for your family to eat.
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Post by Dubdrifter on Nov 8, 2023 10:23:43 GMT
No surprise that the bosses of Aldi here using AI to divide Society into “have” and “have nots” … had links to the Nazis during WW2. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_AlbrechtUrsula von der Leyen has a grandfather called Carl Albrecht … who was a Nazi political high-up working for Hitler … and wanted to partition Ukraine in Germany’s interests … wonder if they are related? 🙄🤔 … maybe being back in the EU is not such a ‘good idea’ after all?? 🫣😱👎👹😎
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