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Post by Einhorn on Nov 20, 2022 23:15:37 GMT
A poll carried out about 3 months ago showed that 56% of the NI population is in favour of the Protocol. And 58% think that the Government should not break its agreement with the EU. Yet in the only poll that matters one community voted for parties against the Protocol. Two things: 1) So what? Article 16 has to be triggered in good faith. It is trite law that a clause in a treaty or contract is used in bad faith if it is not used for the purpose it was inserted in the treaty/contract. Article 16 was inserted into the Protocol to fix problems arising from social unrest, etc. It is bad faith to use Article 16 for any other purpose, or to trigger it if is apparent that it won't fix the problem. Furthermore, it is bad faith to continue to keep it triggered once it becomes apparent it won't fix the problem. There is nothing to indicate that triggering Article 16 will have the effect of returning both parties to Stormont (even if the DUP claims it will). 2) All of this is entirely academic. Didn't you read any newspapers last week? Sunak is seeking a more co-operative approach with the EU. He's not about to trigger Article 16. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 21, 2022 7:49:57 GMT
No, we don't follow EU rules. That's why we get sued by the EU! The only way to protect their SM from illegal goods is by carrying out checks for illegal goods. So, this thing about using technology: where will these checks on the goods be carried out and pre-approved for entry? Or are you saying that there wouldn't be checks on goods anymore? From punishing the UK for leaving to building an empire. Please, can you grow a bit of reality and find a realistic, real-world, argument against the EU? We follow EU product rules - because they were enshrined in UK law and we haven't yet repealed them. That's why the SME on the Farming program was complaining about stupid EU laws that he had to comply with despite not selling to the EU. And you don't need checks on goods if you're an "approved exporter". And you've never addressed the point that 20% of EU checks occur at the Brtain/NI border - which carries 0.5% of of EU imports. And the checks are deliberately nit-picking and slow. Do you ever read the papers? |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 21, 2022 7:51:16 GMT
Surely, you are not claiming that Northern Ireland is no longer a part of the United Kingdom because it has to follow laws pertaining to trade made by a foreign parliament. No - I said it's status had changed. It is now the only part of the UK being governed by a foreign power in which it has no representation. Are you having trouble keeping up? So trucks can drive down down the M1 and get checked at the inspection points that already exist - after all if a container arrives on the back of a ship or a truck it makes absolutely no difference. In fact even if it does arrive on a ship it still has to be put on the back of a truck to get to the warehouse...  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 9:41:01 GMT
Error.
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Post by Einhorn on Nov 21, 2022 9:51:34 GMT
No - I said it's status had changed. It is now the only part of the UK being governed by a foreign power in which it has no representation. Are you having trouble keeping up? So trucks can drive down down the M1 and get checked at the inspection points that already exist - after all if a container arrives on the back of a ship or a truck it makes absolutely no difference. In fact even if it does arrive on a ship it still has to be put on the back of a truck to get to the warehouse... I agree. I suppose Pacifico would be happy to have trucks getting off ferries at Dover to be checked when they arrive in Manchester. Nothing could possibly go wrong between Dover and Manchester, right? |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 21, 2022 11:30:13 GMT
I agree. I suppose Pacifico would be happy to have trucks getting off ferries at Dover to be checked when they arrive in Manchester. Nothing could possibly go wrong between Dover and Manchester, right? So the problem is the distance then? - if the trucks were only going London it would be OK? |
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Post by Einhorn on Nov 21, 2022 12:00:52 GMT
I agree. I suppose Pacifico would be happy to have trucks getting off ferries at Dover to be checked when they arrive in Manchester. Nothing could possibly go wrong between Dover and Manchester, right? So the problem is the distance then? - if the trucks were only going London it would be OK? Sigh! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 13:14:54 GMT
[quoteNo - I said it's status had changed. It is now the only part of the UK being governed by a foreign power in which it has no representation. Are you having trouble keeping up? Yeah, yeah, but what do you mean by status? You keep saying "its status has changed" but you won't clarify what you mean by status. So again, Northern Ireland's status as what, exactly? Do you mean its status as a country in, of, belonging to the United Kingdom? Because, nothing's changed there, Protocol or no Protocol. NI is and will always be an integral part of the UK despite having to follow EU trade rules. And despite what you say to the contrary.No, if you are suggesting that trucks can be inspected at inspection points in the UK before they head out to EU/Ireland. The EU have to carry out inspections -- that's fundamental to the integrity of their Single Market, and crucial in the case of the UK since they no longer trust us to do things accordingly. So. Trucks can drive down the M1; make their way to the nearest port in GB or NI; get on a ferry to Dublin where they check goods from non-EU countries. The same goes for trucks coming from Northern Ireland. NI shoppers wishing to do a bit of shopping in Dublin can do the same, i.e., get in a car; get on a ferry to Dublin -- or take a short flight from Belfast to Dublin -- where they can go through the normal EU/Ireland customs and immigration. The border between North and South Ireland can remain open. But they can't be used for anything. It's just there to satisfy the provisions of the GFA. How's that? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 16:44:39 GMT
No, we don't follow EU rules. That's why we get sued by the EU! The only way to protect their SM from illegal goods is by carrying out checks for illegal goods. So, this thing about using technology: where will these checks on the goods be carried out and pre-approved for entry? Or are you saying that there wouldn't be checks on goods anymore? From punishing the UK for leaving to building an empire. Please, can you grow a bit of reality and find a realistic, real-world, argument against the EU? We follow EU product rules - because they were enshrined in UK law and we haven't yet repealed them. That's why the SME on the Farming program was complaining about stupid EU laws that he had to comply with despite not selling to the EU. And you don't need checks on goods if you're an "approved exporter". And you've never addressed the point that 20% of EU checks occur at the Brtain/NI border - which carries 0.5% of of EU imports. And the checks are deliberately nit-picking and slow. Do you ever read the papers? We're obligated to follow EU trade rules. But we don't. Hence, all our problems with the Northern Ireland Protocol. And so, we get sued. Then the cultist faction of the Brexit Project go ape. Or play the aggrieved victim. I haven't addressed that point? Fine, let me repeat: The EU doesn't trust us to enact the agreement accordingly. Therefore, they are vigilant about their checks. We forced them to be vigilant about their checks -- unilaterally extending grace periods; threatening to scrap the deal almost every month; etc., etc. etc. Yes, I do read the papers. And I understand what I read, too. Unlike some who memorise what they read without understanding any of it. Parrots. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 21, 2022 17:56:23 GMT
No, if you are suggesting that trucks can be inspected at inspection points in the UK before they head out to EU/Ireland. The EU have to carry out inspections -- that's fundamental to the integrity of their Single Market, and crucial in the case of the UK since they no longer trust us to do things accordingly. No - I'll say it again as you didn't understand it the first time. Goods going from the UK to Ireland can be inspected at the same place as goods from other non-EU countries. So you have a warehouse somewhere in Ireland that does the inspections - some truckloads (from other non-EU countries) come from the docks at Dublin and some truckloads come down the M1 from Belfast. The existing inspection point for non-EU imports also does imports from the UK. Just treat the UK the same as Ireland currently treats the USA or Australia. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 19:31:12 GMT
No, if you are suggesting that trucks can be inspected at inspection points in the UK before they head out to EU/Ireland. The EU have to carry out inspections -- that's fundamental to the integrity of their Single Market, and crucial in the case of the UK since they no longer trust us to do things accordingly. No - I'll say it again as you didn't understand it the first time. Goods going from the UK to Ireland can be inspected at the same place as goods from other non-EU countries. So you have a warehouse somewhere in Ireland that does the inspections - some truckloads (from other non-EU countries) come from the docks at Dublin and some truckloads come down the M1 from Belfast. The existing inspection point for non-EU imports also does imports from the UK. Just treat the UK the same as Ireland currently treats the USA or Australia. Next time, please try to make your posts intelligible. Anyway. As per our TCA, you have to separate NI from GB for trade purposes. Don't just conflate the two and say "UK!" So. NI follows EU rules; GB does not. Goods manufactured in NI don't get checked as they are classified as EU goods. Goods manufactured in GB and exported to NI need to be checked as they are non-EU goods. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but here's what you are saying: GB goods exported to NI and destined for NI don't get checked. GB goods exported to NI but destined for S. Ireland, on the other hand, do get checked -- and not at the border but in a bonded warehouse somewhere in Dublin, past the border between North and South. Bearing in mind that GB goods effectively enter the EU the moment they enter NI; where's that part that says that all non-EU goods must be checked the moment they enter the EU? |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 21, 2022 22:33:48 GMT
No - I'll say it again as you didn't understand it the first time. Goods going from the UK to Ireland can be inspected at the same place as goods from other non-EU countries. So you have a warehouse somewhere in Ireland that does the inspections - some truckloads (from other non-EU countries) come from the docks at Dublin and some truckloads come down the M1 from Belfast. The existing inspection point for non-EU imports also does imports from the UK. Just treat the UK the same as Ireland currently treats the USA or Australia. Next time, please try to make your posts intelligible. Anyway. As per our TCA, you have to separate NI from GB for trade purposes. Don't just conflate the two and say "UK!" So. NI follows EU rules; GB does not. Goods manufactured in NI don't get checked as they are classified as EU goods. Goods manufactured in GB and exported to NI need to be checked as they are non-EU goods. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but here's what you are saying: GB goods exported to NI and destined for NI don't get checked. GB goods exported to NI but destined for S. Ireland, on the other hand, do get checked -- and not at the border but in a bonded warehouse somewhere in Dublin, past the border between North and South. Bearing in mind that GB goods effectively enter the EU the moment they enter NI; where's that part that says that all non-EU goods must be checked the moment they enter the EU?since when? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 22:40:59 GMT
Next time, please try to make your posts intelligible. Anyway. As per our TCA, you have to separate NI from GB for trade purposes. Don't just conflate the two and say "UK!" So. NI follows EU rules; GB does not. Goods manufactured in NI don't get checked as they are classified as EU goods. Goods manufactured in GB and exported to NI need to be checked as they are non-EU goods. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but here's what you are saying: GB goods exported to NI and destined for NI don't get checked. GB goods exported to NI but destined for S. Ireland, on the other hand, do get checked -- and not at the border but in a bonded warehouse somewhere in Dublin, past the border between North and South. Bearing in mind that GB goods effectively enter the EU the moment they enter NI; where's that part that says that all non-EU goods must be checked the moment they enter the EU?since when? Since the EU created that rule. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 21, 2022 22:54:20 GMT
Since the EU created that rule. got a link to this rule and when did they bring it in? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 23:18:13 GMT
Since the EU created that rule. got a link to this rule and when did they bring it in? You should be so lucky! You're the one undermining what I claim. So. Got a link to your claim that contradicts mine? |
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