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Post by Vinny on Sept 15, 2023 21:48:44 GMT
And in turn UKIP were outspent by pro EU parties, media and "EU funded" projects as well as pro EU lessons in schools.
What is needed now is to put aside differences, put the past to bed and look to the future. Poverty needs addressing, so does the national debt.
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Post by wapentake on Sept 15, 2023 21:49:07 GMT
Do you deny the failures are true or prefer to try a poor distraction? None of the promises made by leavers have happened and nothing the Brexit government has done has improved the country. In fact no Brexit policy has dealt with the realities which inevitably involve the UK. If anything Brexit policies have made dealing with them more difficult. The whole Brexit narrative was built on a shallow nationalistic view with no consideration for the global context within which any country has to exist successfully. Absolute cobblers,forget all the talk of lies they all lied it’s what politicians do as a matter of course Much was made of slogans on the side of a bus,it didn’t figure I guess many like myself looked around and didn’t like the way the project was progressing,I voted in the first referendum with some reservations but that the common market wasn’t a bad idea. As time went by and the ever increasing and unfathomable treaties were signed one by one with little or no reference to the people,the promise of a referendum came and went and we were lied to again and again. There were few who were prepared to stand and voice their concerns in parliament they were Majors bastards. Not all was bad with the eu,but post brexit remainers tried to convince with arguments that the right to roam mobile phone charges would be lost,yes it was a good initiative but not enough to sell our souls to Brussels. So even now and looking at this thread there are those who still base their counter on an irrelevant bus,that the vote only succeeded because of the stupid and gullible. Surely some who voted leave are stupid and gullible and surely the same applied to remain,if asked I suspect most who voted leave accepted that the eu would be awkward about this and they are prepared for the consequences of that. Brexit needs time to prove itself,if you voted remain you may not like that but it is a fact because if you pretend any respect of what was probably the biggest democratic exercise in this country ever a fair and free vote was held,the majority won,many but not enough to either bother to vote or in sufficient numbers lost. Its legitimate to dispute brexit but should be tempered with acknowledgment that it was a loss. |
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Post by Steve on Sept 15, 2023 21:52:56 GMT
And in turn UKIP were outspent by pro EU parties, media and "EU funded" projects as well as pro EU lessons in schools. What is needed now is to put aside differences, put the past to bed and look to the future. Poverty needs addressing, so does the national debt. Well if you want to put aside differences maybe you could persuade your fellow leavers to stop starting fights by posting BS and then getting ratty and abusive when it's challenged. Just accept that your right to Brexit is the 2019 election and there are issues with the reality of Brexit. |
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Post by Vinny on Sept 15, 2023 22:05:11 GMT
Of course there are issues, look at the tariffs, we have tariffs on things we don't grow or make, why?
Scrap those tariffs.
Have democratic involvement in the establishment of FTAs. Make a break with the past and have more democracy.
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Post by Steve on Sept 15, 2023 22:20:23 GMT
Any examples of those tariffs?
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Post by oracle75 on Sept 15, 2023 22:20:46 GMT
Do you deny the failures are true or prefer to try a poor distraction? None of the promises made by leavers have happened and nothing the Brexit government has done has improved the country. In fact no Brexit policy has dealt with the realities which inevitably involve the UK. If anything Brexit policies have made dealing with them more difficult. The whole Brexit narrative was built on a shallow nationalistic view with no consideration for the global context within which any country has to exist successfully. Absolute cobblers,forget all the talk of lies they all lied it’s what politicians do as a matter of course Much was made of slogans on the side of a bus,it didn’t figure I guess many like myself looked around and didn’t like the way the project was progressing,I voted in the first referendum with some reservations but that the common market wasn’t a bad idea. As time went by and the ever increasing and unfathomable treaties were signed one by one with little or no reference to the people,the promise of a referendum came and went and we were lied to again and again. There were few who were prepared to stand and voice their concerns in parliament they were Majors bastards. Not all was bad with the eu,but post brexit remainers tried to convince with arguments that the right to roam mobile phone charges would be lost,yes it was a good initiative but not enough to sell our souls to Brussels. So even now and looking at this thread there are those who still base their counter on an irrelevant bus,that the vote only succeeded because of the stupid and gullible. Surely some who voted leave are stupid and gullible and surely the same applied to remain,if asked I suspect most who voted leave accepted that the eu would be awkward about this and they are prepared for the consequences of that. Brexit needs time to prove itself,if you voted remain you may not like that but it is a fact because if you pretend any respect of what was probably the biggest democratic exercise in this country ever a fair and free vote was held,the majority won,many but not enough to either bother to vote or in sufficient numbers lost. Its legitimate to dispute brexit but should be tempered with acknowledgment that it was a loss. And just how long are you going to wait for jam tomorrow while the country gets further into its various messes that no Brexit promise can fix. Remember the sunlit uplands, that sovereignty would solve every problem, that warnings that problems are usually caused externally was called project fear. They were warnings from those who understood that any country that trades with another one has to compromise. And finally, as made clear today in here, leavers had no clue about what they were leaving. They followed liars who told them the landing at the bottom of the cliff was fine...the UK would grow wings half way down and fly off into a new dawn. And without the illegitimate use of personal data, the result would have been different. It was not a free or fair vote. It was a fraud, as was most of what followed. The idea of silencing Parliament in order to push legislation through was the leavers' idea of sovereignty. Free and fair never crossed their minds. It was more like a coup d'etat, and even with a majority of 80, couldn't run a scout camp. Now the UK wants bits of the EU back. If it were me i would tell you to sod off, but the EU will be more diplomatic. And the UK will never thank them for their generosity, but will still cuss and blame and criticise and abuse the EU. It is a good thing there is one adult in the room. |
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Post by oracle75 on Sept 15, 2023 22:26:54 GMT
Of course there are issues, look at the tariffs, we have tariffs on things we don't grow or make, why? Scrap those tariffs. Have democratic involvement in the establishment of FTAs. Make a break with the past and have more democracy. Because you charge tariffs on your exports. Because you and they work in a capitalistic system where profits are made which go to pay for social needs including pensions. Because you cant pay for steel with coconuts. If you dont want to pay for imports, stop buying strawberries in september, stop importing metals to build technology with and stop charging foreign students to study in the UK, one of your biggest exports. And start to understand the world you live in. The idea that the average Joe in the pub can vote for or against FTA's is hilarious. They end up voting for the country with their favourite football team. Do you understand what is in these deals? The sharing of data, communications, populations, use of satellites, military agreements etc etc. Yes, today they are all part of FTA's. Democracy says we elect people who can do these deals, except we dont. You elect someone who screws your farmers and fishermen because they are virgin negotiators who are taken advantage of. And because the UK market is too small to respect. On the other hand the EU is a huge market, can get best deals and has been doing it for over 50 years. Even Gove now admits experts arent such a bad thing. |
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Post by Vinny on Sept 15, 2023 22:51:42 GMT
I've posted them before.
You can either go on the HMRC customs tariff site and look up oranges, which we definitely have a tariff on and do not grow, or the WTO tariff profiles document, or take my word for it.
There are problems with our tariffs.
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Post by buccaneer on Sept 15, 2023 22:55:40 GMT
Absolute cobblers,forget all the talk of lies they all lied it’s what politicians do as a matter of course Much was made of slogans on the side of a bus,it didn’t figure I guess many like myself looked around and didn’t like the way the project was progressing,I voted in the first referendum with some reservations but that the common market wasn’t a bad idea. As time went by and the ever increasing and unfathomable treaties were signed one by one with little or no reference to the people,the promise of a referendum came and went and we were lied to again and again. There were few who were prepared to stand and voice their concerns in parliament they were Majors bastards. Not all was bad with the eu,but post brexit remainers tried to convince with arguments that the right to roam mobile phone charges would be lost,yes it was a good initiative but not enough to sell our souls to Brussels. So even now and looking at this thread there are those who still base their counter on an irrelevant bus,that the vote only succeeded because of the stupid and gullible. Surely some who voted leave are stupid and gullible and surely the same applied to remain,if asked I suspect most who voted leave accepted that the eu would be awkward about this and they are prepared for the consequences of that. Brexit needs time to prove itself,if you voted remain you may not like that but it is a fact because if you pretend any respect of what was probably the biggest democratic exercise in this country ever a fair and free vote was held,the majority won,many but not enough to either bother to vote or in sufficient numbers lost. Its legitimate to dispute brexit but should be tempered with acknowledgment that it was a loss. And just how long are you going to wait for jam tomorrow while the country gets further into its various messes that no Brexit promise can fix. Remember the sunlit uplands, that sovereignty would solve every problem, that warnings that problems are usually caused externally was called project fear. They were warnings from those who understood that any country that trades with another one has to compromise. And finally, as made clear today in here, leavers had no clue about what they were leaving. They followed liars who told them the landing at the bottom of the cliff was fine...the UK would grow wings half way down and fly off into a new dawn. And without the illegitimate use of personal data, the result would have been different. It was not a free or fair vote. It was a fraud, as was most of what followed. The idea of silencing Parliament in order to push legislation through was the leavers' idea of sovereignty. Free and fair never crossed their minds. It was more like a coup d'etat, and even with a majority of 80, couldn't run a scout camp. Now the UK wants bits of the EU back. If it were me i would tell you to sod off, but the EU will be more diplomatic. And the UK will never thank them for their generosity, but will still cuss and blame and criticise and abuse the EU. It is a good thing there is one adult in the room. Sunlit uplands was another projection by remainers. However, as usual you miss the point. The EU is the anomally here. Every other country in the world is sovereign. The UK wanted to return itself to its proper, former self like all other nations around the world are; except only the 27 in Europe who are part of a heavily politicised union that seeks central control over people who aren't even co-cultural. You begrudge that. Being in the EU never solved all the UK's problems. The world doesn't work like that. Yet, soverign nations the world over have problems to solve for themselves - this is the very essence of sovereignty. There is no feather in the cap to be had pretending the sunlit uplands are with EU membership. In fact the EU's migrant crisis is just one example, it's in chaos and there seems to be very little solidairty between member states when it comes to this issue. But you personally like many other rejoiners just can't let go and hold your hands up to a vote you lost. Again, the EU is the anomally here when it comes to the global distribution of sovereignty, the UK was fed-up with it and wanted a return to the status quo the rest of the world enjoy. And you begrudge that. |
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Post by jonksy on Sept 16, 2023 2:30:05 GMT
Its you who is talking bollocks. Your lot had MORE than the leave side. There is no way you ot anyone else knows that the remainers had extra as they were fined for not keeping proper accounts. The EC stated that they could not prove how much your lot had extra. Why were your lot fined? No they did not. Go on see if you can post an EC link saying so What did your last servant die of? Look it up yourself you have been shot down so many times over this bollocks and still you persist in spouting the same old lies. Get over it your side had millions more than the leave campaign and you are just a sore loser. |
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Post by oracle75 on Sept 16, 2023 6:55:46 GMT
At least it was spent honestly.
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Post by Vinny on Sept 16, 2023 8:11:29 GMT
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Post by Steve on Sept 16, 2023 8:28:30 GMT
Ta
Because they compete against UK grown fruit perchance?
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Post by Vinny on Sept 16, 2023 8:29:50 GMT
How? We don't grow lemons, melons or oranges.
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Post by Steve on Sept 16, 2023 8:32:06 GMT
How? We don't grow lemons, melons or oranges. We grow other fruit that people can eat instead |
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