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Post by Pacifico on Sept 8, 2023 7:02:22 GMT
apparently the amount of subsidy on offer from the taxpayer (around £200 Million) was not enough...
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Post by sheepy on Sept 8, 2023 7:06:03 GMT
I just have to ask, why are they subsidising something that is a great way of producing free energy as we are always told it is? Surely a golden opportunity for a business model. Oh wait what if the wind don't blow?
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Post by dappy on Sept 8, 2023 7:22:16 GMT
With respect you don’t seem to have grasped how the CfD scheme works
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 8, 2023 7:26:00 GMT
I just have to ask, why are they subsidising something that is a great way of producing free energy as we are always told it is? Surely a golden opportunity for a business model. Oh wait what if the wind don't blow? It's amazing - we are taxing the fossil fuel industry so much that it is not worth them investing in production and not subsiding renewables enough that it becomes worthwhile them investing in production. It's like there is a cunning plan somewhere...
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Post by dappy on Sept 8, 2023 7:45:49 GMT
Still failing to understand the situation. Yet more government incompetence.
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Post by sheepy on Sept 8, 2023 7:58:43 GMT
With respect answer the frigging question.
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Post by dappy on Sept 8, 2023 9:32:26 GMT
The question, Sheepy was an entirely false premise. There is no such thing as free energy.
Anybody considering building a new power generating plant faces a major problem regardless of whether the fuel is fossil based or renewable. There is a huge upfront capital investment recovered over time after completion by selling energy. Trouble is the price of energy generated fluctuates hugely out of the control of the generator. That makes financing power generation plants very difficult. Any new generator will seek to control this risk by agreeing a fixed price contract for the power generated with either the government or the grid (or if onshore with local large power consuming manufacturers). So far no difference between fossil and renewables.
Any new fossil developments negotiate these fixed price agreements directly. Renewables go through an auction process the Contract for difference process. The government sets a ceiling price and potential operators bid at or below that price. The renewables ceiling is way below the price for fossil fuel new capacity as it is now much cheaper. Problem is the Government has failed to reflect recent capital cost increases and hence set the ceiling far too low and hence no projects were financially viable. More incompetence I am afraid.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2023 10:11:46 GMT
I just have to ask, why are they subsidising something that is a great way of producing free energy as we are always told it is? Surely a golden opportunity for a business model. Oh wait what if the wind don't blow? This happens as it is right now. (May need to click image to see it better)
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 8, 2023 10:55:04 GMT
Onwards and upwards....
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 8, 2023 10:58:40 GMT
Mind you - if the expansion of offshore wind is halted it could save us a fortune. The current average price per MwH for offshore wind is £179.38. The current day ahead price for gas powered electricity is around £70.
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Post by dappy on Sept 8, 2023 11:59:17 GMT
Now let’s try to compare like for like. Next day prices fluctuate massively dependent on demand and supply and weather. Wholesale prices for the winter period are currently around £120 - £130 and for a twelve month fix period £110 to £120. If you look to fix for a longer period they are higher still.
The cap for CfD auction that failed was set at £44 . Given increased costs, it probably would need to be around £55 to attract bids. Still 50% plus below wholesale price.
Onshore wind would be cheaper still.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2023 12:39:51 GMT
The future for carbon based energy is not good, even without a war in Ukraine the future price of electricity generated by gas is going to rise, as is gas, partly because these resources are going to become scarcer.
We are aiming now for a "Cross-Over Point" where renewable energy will be cheaper than dirty energy, both with and without subsidy.
Yet another catastrophe by this failure of a government, a significant blow to our clean energy Target, and it destroys the governments PROMISE to deliver 50 GW of clean energy by 2030.
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Post by steppenwolf on Sept 8, 2023 12:43:46 GMT
The question, Sheepy was an entirely false premise. There is no such thing as free energy. Anybody considering building a new power generating plant faces a major problem regardless of whether the fuel is fossil based or renewable. There is a huge upfront capital investment recovered over time after completion by selling energy. Trouble is the price of energy generated fluctuates hugely out of the control of the generator. That makes financing power generation plants very difficult. Any new generator will seek to control this risk by agreeing a fixed price contract for the power generated with either the government or the grid (or if onshore with local large power consuming manufacturers). So far no difference between fossil and renewables. Any new fossil developments negotiate these fixed price agreements directly. Renewables go through an auction process the Contract for difference process. The government sets a ceiling price and potential operators bid at or below that price. The renewables ceiling is way below the price for fossil fuel new capacity as it is now much cheaper. Problem is the Government has failed to reflect recent capital cost increases and hence set the ceiling far too low and hence no projects were financially viable. More incompetence I am afraid. Bollocks. Renewables are no cheaper than oil for the simple reason that there's absolutely no reason why they should sell it cheaper than oil. The renewable energy that we've been using is no cheaper than oil. Now that the govt have attempted to pay the providers less they've simply withdrawn (en masse) from quoting. They want even bigger subsidies. The cost of off-shore wind turbines has gone up markedly (about 40%) and is no longer viable even at the fossil fuel rates. Watch Richard Tice on Talk TV this Sunday (10 am). He's been looking into it and is reporting on it. This is another scam.
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Post by dappy on Sept 8, 2023 12:46:41 GMT
When you were writing that, did it make sense in your head?
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 8, 2023 17:24:56 GMT
We are aiming now for a "Cross-Over Point" where renewable energy will be cheaper than dirty energy, both with and without subsidy. people have been saying that we are getting to the point where renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels for years - but that day never actually arrives..
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