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Post by zanygame on Sept 7, 2023 19:48:52 GMT
The only thing that matters is democracy and the means to see it through. I understand that the obsessed foreign EUphiles who interfere in national democracies are EU fascists. However, nothing has changed. The same lot who were adamant that Remain would win the referendum, because their dodgy polls suggested as much, are the same lot in a state of constant repetition. The real people have had their say. You have an odd idea of how democracy works,. It's supposed to be the wishes of the majority. 82 polls in a row is pretty conclusive. Nobody expects another referendum any time soon. Not least because the EU won't take the UK back, not as a full member at any rate.. However, the withdrawal agreement is coming up for review, and Labour (possibly as part of a Lib Dem coalition) will likely move things more in the direction of Brino, as a prelude to the inevitable second referendum within the next 10 years. And quietly we re-joined horizon.  |
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Post by sandypine on Sept 7, 2023 20:03:44 GMT
The only thing that matters is democracy and the means to see it through. I understand that the obsessed foreign EUphiles who interfere in national democracies are EU fascists. However, nothing has changed. The same lot who were adamant that Remain would win the referendum, because their dodgy polls suggested as much, are the same lot in a state of constant repetition. The real people have had their say. The only thing that matters is democracy. The will of the people. Not one vote and then deny any right to change your mind. It took 40 years to get a democratic vote to see if we had indeed changed our minds. Over that period what we voted for changed from a Common Market to a European Union. |
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Post by buccaneer on Sept 7, 2023 20:22:14 GMT
You have an odd idea of how democracy works,. It's supposed to be the wishes of the majority. 82 polls in a row is pretty conclusive. Nobody expects another referendum any time soon. Not least because the EU won't take the UK back, not as a full member at any rate.. However, the withdrawal agreement is coming up for review, and Labour (possibly as part of a Lib Dem coalition) will likely move things more in the direction of Brino, as a prelude to the inevitable second referendum within the next 10 years. And quietly we re-joined horizon. And refused to join Euratom. Otherwise known as "chery picking"  |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 7, 2023 20:26:43 GMT
The only thing that matters is democracy. The will of the people. Not one vote and then deny any right to change your mind. It took 40 years to get a democratic vote to see if we had indeed changed our minds. Over that period what we voted for changed from a Common Market to a European Union. So what. Why would you want to impose such a bad thing on future generations |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 7, 2023 20:28:41 GMT
And quietly we re-joined horizon. And refused to join Euratom. Otherwise known as "chery picking" Why would we want to join the the European Atomic Energy Community when renewables are our future. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2023 20:33:43 GMT
The very last time any opinion poll showed a majority to STAY OUT of the EU was in April 2022, a poll by Redfield & Wilton ( 45% Rejoin .. 47% Stay out .. 8% Dont Know ).
Since that time there have been a total of 90 major, mainstream polls, all of which show a majority to REJOIN, the latest published that I can find was on the 25th August published by Deltapoll showing a 13 point lead for REJOIN.
We all know that LEAVE voters and REMAIN voters were defined by age group, therefore it was always blatantly obvious that as time went by, as older voters departed, and younger voters slowly take their place, that public opinion would gradualy change.
We will rejoin sometime in the future because democracy will win out, and the voices of the majority will have to be listened to. But as things are, its too early just yet, the referendum is still fresh in our memories, but given time, we will probably slowly move closer to Europe.
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Post by buccaneer on Sept 7, 2023 20:47:21 GMT
And refused to join Euratom. Otherwise known as "chery picking" Why would we want to join the the European Atomic Energy Community when renewables are our future. I just know that we cherry picked our wants while you smuggly smiled at the UK quietly joining Horizon. But fusion4energy is supposedly suistainable, viable and doesn't produce greenhouse gases. And the the UK wanted no part in this . |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 7, 2023 20:56:46 GMT
Why would we want to join the the European Atomic Energy Community when renewables are our future. I just know that we cherry picked our wants while you smuggly smiled at the UK quietly joining Horizon. But fusion4energy is supposedly suistainable, viable and doesn't produce greenhouse gases. And the the UK wanted no part in this . Half the EU are not in Eurotom. Nuclear is OK but renewables have taken the lead now. |
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Post by buccaneer on Sept 7, 2023 21:12:02 GMT
I just know that we cherry picked our wants while you smuggly smiled at the UK quietly joining Horizon. But fusion4energy is supposedly suistainable, viable and doesn't produce greenhouse gases. And the the UK wanted no part in this . Half the EU are not in Eurotom. Nuclear is OK but renewables have taken the lead now. Like I said the UK cherry picked what it wanted to be part of. It also opted out of Eramus+ |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 7, 2023 21:16:34 GMT
You have an odd idea of how democracy works,. It's supposed to be the wishes of the majority. 82 polls in a row is pretty conclusive. Nobody expects another referendum any time soon. Not least because the EU won't take the UK back, not as a full member at any rate.. However, the withdrawal agreement is coming up for review, and Labour (possibly as part of a Lib Dem coalition) will likely move things more in the direction of Brino, as a prelude to the inevitable second referendum within the next 10 years. And quietly we re-joined horizon. Which was part of Johnsons WA - its only the EU fucking about that has prevented it before. Didn't you know what you were voting for in 2019? |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 7, 2023 21:18:03 GMT
The very last time any opinion poll showed a majority to STAY OUT of the EU was in April 2022, a poll by Redfield & Wilton ( 45% Rejoin .. 47% Stay out .. 8% Dont Know ). Since that time there have been a total of 90 major, mainstream polls, all of which show a majority to REJOIN, the latest published that I can find was on the 25th August published by Deltapoll showing a 13 point lead for REJOIN. We all know that LEAVE voters and REMAIN voters were defined by age group, therefore it was always blatantly obvious that as time went by, as older voters departed, and younger voters slowly take their place, that public opinion would gradualy change. We will rejoin sometime in the future because democracy will win out, and the voices of the majority will have to be listened to. But as things are, its too early just yet, the referendum is still fresh in our memories, but given time, we will probably slowly move closer to Europe. If it's as clear cut as you claim why are Labour not promising another referendum? |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 7, 2023 21:20:02 GMT
Which is not a majority. What is the point of going to all the expense and upheaval of a referendum for a policy that does not command majority support? So, you admit that more people would rather rejoin than stay out, then. And your question implies that there would be a 'point' in having another referendum if it could be demonstrated that there is majority support. With the exception of your recent polls, all polls have shown a majority wishing to rejoin(including a very recent one, putting rejoin figures at 62%). The rejoin vote is collapsing - so why the need for another referendum now when they cannot even get above 50% in an opinion poll? |
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Post by Einhorn on Sept 7, 2023 21:27:52 GMT
So, you admit that more people would rather rejoin than stay out, then. And your question implies that there would be a 'point' in having another referendum if it could be demonstrated that there is majority support. With the exception of your recent polls, all polls have shown a majority wishing to rejoin(including a very recent one, putting rejoin figures at 62%). The rejoin vote is collapsing - so why the need for another referendum now when they cannot even get above 50% in an opinion poll? A recent poll put it at 62%. As repeatedly pointed out, Rejoin has has won every poll for a very long time, including those polls you linked recently. It's actually support for Brexit that has been collapsing (as you well know). |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 7, 2023 21:30:49 GMT
The rejoin vote is collapsing - so why the need for another referendum now when they cannot even get above 50% in an opinion poll? A recent poll put it at 62%. ..and 2 more recent polls put it at 48%. That is a collapse in support by anyone's measure. |
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Post by Einhorn on Sept 7, 2023 21:33:50 GMT
A recent poll put it at 62%. ..and 2 more recent polls put it at 48%. That is a collapse in support by anyone's measure. More recent by a couple of days, Doc. It seems extraordinary that support would fall from 62% to 48% in such a short time. The vast majority of polls have been putting support for rejoin in the mid fifties and upwards for a long time. Your results are outliers. And even if they weren't, they're still indicative of a trend towards rejoin. |
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