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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 20, 2023 9:33:11 GMT
The missed chances that could have saved babies lives, She must have gone home every night pitching herself that she was still free to carry on her murdering spree, imagine how those parents feel, they will be tortured forever wondering if their baby could have still been alive if only they would have listened to those with concerns, the management who ignored the warning signs have technically aided and abetted a murderer, it's the only way you can put it, because they enabled her to 'carry on' with her murdering spree.
I would go after them on a personal level demanding criminal charges, this is well beyond incompetence, gross misconduct, duty of care, it's criminal.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2023 9:56:37 GMT
Well I will tell you what HAS NOT HELPED in this case, and in lots of other instances not so serious
Chronic staff shortages, nurses in every part of the country doing more than is expected from them, nurses rushed off their feet, nurses trying to cut themselves into two, nurses exhausted and worn out, often burnt out.
Pay that is lower in real terms than ten years ago, poorer terms and conditions, and the feeling we have a government that simply does not value or appreciate NHS staff.
Little wonder that things are getting over-looked, and mistakes are been made, maybe if staff actually had the time to employ Due Dilligence and carry out checks, then maybe, just maybe this might not have happened.
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 20, 2023 10:06:29 GMT
Well I will tell you what HAS NOT HELPED in this case, and in lots of other instances not so serious Chronic staff shortages, nurses in every part of the country doing more than is expected from them, nurses rushed off their feet, nurses trying to cut themselves into two, nurses exhausted and worn out, often burnt out. Pay that is lower in real terms than ten years ago, poorer terms and conditions, and the feeling we have a government that simply does not value or appreciate NHS staff. Little wonder that things are getting over-looked, and mistakes are been made, maybe if staff actually had the time to employ Due Dilligence and carry out checks, then maybe, just maybe this might not have happened. No shortage of pen pushing, target driven management on the fiddle, they are too busy trying to scam money out of the NHS, to be concerned about suspicious baby deaths, stop trying to turn babies deaths in to party political broadcast on behalf of the Labour party FFS .... have a bit of decorum, or will accuse you of trying to score political points, and exploiting these babies deaths for political gain ....... like Starmer and Rayner do.
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Aug 20, 2023 10:14:21 GMT
In 1994 my wife died in a hospital. There was an inquest 18 months later. Before the inquest started the Coroner spoke to me. I told him that my wife's Consultant would try to blame me for her death. He replied: "Leave him to me, we know about him". When the Consultant gave evidence, when he tried to blame me, the Coroner interrupted him with a loud: "SHUT UP!" The court decision was that my wife had died from pneumonia and the "treatable" condition that an autopsy found that she'd had (that was not her diagnosis (Multiple sclerosis) prior to her death). Four years later the Consultant was sacked by the Health Authority after being found "Unfit to be a doctor" by two medical organisations. During these years there had been 43 complaints against him by hospital staff. When the Authority had tried to hold a public inquiry none of the complainants were willing to go public .. because of the nature of their accusations against him ... and the fact that he was a very highly qualified man who had been a senior lecturer at a top London medical school. He then took the Authority to court for unfair dismissal ... having got 'Private Eye' to support him! He said in court that there was a widespread conspiracy at all levels within the NHS against him. He won compensation and was allowed to work in hospitals again. A few hours after my wife's death I'd had the following conversation with him: Me: "Did you give her anything?" Him: "She'd developed Cheyne Stokes breath ..." Me (interrupting him): Did you give her anything?" Him: "The Multiple scler ..." Me (interrupting him): "Did you give her anything?" Him: "We put it down the gastro ... " he then stopped talking. He was about to say "Gastronomy tube" ... the feeding tube into her stomach. Prior to her death he'd tried to "twist my arm" into letting him end her life by saying that he: "Had a duty to his patients' souls. If they deteriorate too much their souls have difficulty passing over" (A tactic he'd probably used successfully with other patients' families). I reported him to the police ... who told me that they would only investigate if I paid for the medical advice they would need. This is him: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtCHF1gY8-M(Note what the comment says) After he was sacked the police did investigate him ... but there was no prosecution. Prior to my wife's death under his care. A local private nursing agency told me the names of four other doctor's in his hospital who were, with the Admin's approval, terminating patients. They added him to their list. They said that they would provide us with support at minimal cost if I could get her out of the hospital. I was unable to do so. What was going on in the NHS in the early 90s during the John Major government was summed up by a "concerned" senior doctor as "Eugenics". Things changed when Labour got in (that's why there are so many elderly people around nowadays). In 1990 my mother suddenly developed arthritis in her hands ... but was otherwise healthy. Her GP told her: "You can't expect much in the way of treatment at your age". She was 70. We took her too an alternative therapist who cured her within a month. She lived a healthy life for another 20 years.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Aug 20, 2023 10:17:28 GMT
Well I will tell you what HAS NOT HELPED in this case, and in lots of other instances not so serious Chronic staff shortages, nurses in every part of the country doing more than is expected from them, nurses rushed off their feet, nurses trying to cut themselves into two, nurses exhausted and worn out, often burnt out. Pay that is lower in real terms than ten years ago, poorer terms and conditions, and the feeling we have a government that simply does not value or appreciate NHS staff. Little wonder that things are getting over-looked, and mistakes are been made, maybe if staff actually had the time to employ Due Dilligence and carry out checks, then maybe, just maybe this might not have happened. Pillock.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 20, 2023 10:27:31 GMT
Well I will tell you what HAS NOT HELPED in this case, and in lots of other instances not so serious Chronic staff shortages, nurses in every part of the country doing more than is expected from them, nurses rushed off their feet, nurses trying to cut themselves into two, nurses exhausted and worn out, often burnt out. Pay that is lower in real terms than ten years ago, poorer terms and conditions, and the feeling we have a government that simply does not value or appreciate NHS staff. Little wonder that things are getting over-looked, and mistakes are been made, maybe if staff actually had the time to employ Due Dilligence and carry out checks, then maybe, just maybe this might not have happened. How would more staff have changed the response to the concerns raised by the Doctor?. Would another couple of Nurses made the Unions think again about their unqualified support for Letby or the hospital think she didnt deserve an apology for the claims?
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Post by Orac on Aug 20, 2023 10:32:07 GMT
I think it's quite possible the doctors were cowed by the specter of an accusation of misogyny.
Unfortunately, this is the state of many of our organisations and their management. Reality is the last thing on the priority list because people are cowed by raw and shameless managerial power into pretending they live in a fantasy world
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Aug 20, 2023 10:44:38 GMT
I think that the doctors were naive in believing that they would be supported by the management.
The management were instantly between a rock and a hard place: Instigate an investigation into their own trust, with all of the adverse publicity that would entail, or ignore it and hope it would all go away with the risk of it getting worse.
There was no easy choice for them but sadly, they chose the worst option and I hope that they will be convicted of corporate manslaughter.
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Post by Orac on Aug 20, 2023 10:56:43 GMT
Is there a facility to contact the police to perform a discreet investigation / evidential review?
You go to the police with an open hand, giving them every reason for your suspicions and the police go over what you have and let you know if your suspicions are warranted enough to come to them officially. If they think your case is rock solid, they will pursue it themselves even without you, or without you being mentioned?
I know this sounds a bit circular and pointless, but i feel the facility might act to defuse some of the bad incentives. Doctors were told to appologise and were faced with the prospect of essentially going to the police and reporting their entire management to the police (somewhat daunting as a career choice)
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 20, 2023 11:04:11 GMT
Is there a facility to contact the police to perform a discreet investigation / evidential review? You go to the police with an open hand, giving them every reason for your suspicions and the police go over what you have and let you know if your suspicions are warranted enough to come to them officially. If they think your case is rock solid, they will pursue it themselves even without you, or without you being mentioned? I know this sounds a bit circular and pointless, but i feel the facility might act to defuse some of the bad incentives. Doctors were told to appologise and were faced with the prospect of essentially going to the police and reporting their entire management to the police (somewhat daunting as a career choice) They all close ranks, the police know it would be near on impossible to walk in to a hospital without hard evidence and accuse any member of staff of wrong doing, their hands are tied, as in this case even those medical profession at the top of their field were duped by this seemingly shy, mild mannered, monster.
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Post by wapentake on Aug 20, 2023 11:23:51 GMT
I think it's quite possible the doctors were cowed by the specter of an accusation of misogyny. Unfortunately, this is the state of many of our organisations and their management. Reality is the last thing on the priority list because people are cowed by raw and shameless managerial power into pretending they live in a fantasy world And maybe it’s quite possible given the very recent scandals and hundreds of deaths at neonatal units at three different hospitals that and the fact doctors are not infallible either.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2023 11:44:46 GMT
As per usual the Daily Mail readers cannot understand simplistic
If you are over-worked, hard pressed, under staffed, then quite often things get overlooked, things are sometimes not noticed, or people do not have the time to "double check" or make sure, or look into something.
Its a simple enough conclusion to arrive at, its called logic, I am not saying that this was the cause of this set of tragedies because I dont knowm, no one knows, but I am pointing out that it will not have helped matters.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Aug 20, 2023 11:52:45 GMT
As per usual the Daily Mail readers cannot understand simplistic If you are over-worked, hard pressed, under staffed, then quite often things get overlooked, things are sometimes not noticed, or people do not have the time to "double check" or make sure, or look into something. Its a simple enough conclusion to arrive at, its called logic, I am not saying that this was the cause of this set of tragedies because I dont knowm, no one knows, but I am pointing out that it will not have helped matters. This has nothing to do with the Tories, Labour, politics in general, Daily Mail readers or staffing issues. It is about murder and criminal negligence. Concerns were raised, multiple times, and deliberately dismissed or dealt with wholly inappropriately. Now do stop trying to score cheap political points off the back of a tragedy. Pillock.
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Post by Orac on Aug 20, 2023 11:54:13 GMT
Some personal insight into Munchausen’s Syndrome by Proxy
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Aug 20, 2023 12:24:41 GMT
Is there a facility to contact the police to perform a discreet investigation / evidential review? You go to the police with an open hand, giving them every reason for your suspicions and the police go over what you have and let you know if your suspicions are warranted enough to come to them officially. If they think your case is rock solid, they will pursue it themselves even without you, or without you being mentioned? I know this sounds a bit circular and pointless, but i feel the facility might act to defuse some of the bad incentives. Doctors were told to appologise and were faced with the prospect of essentially going to the police and reporting their entire management to the police (somewhat daunting as a career choice) They all close ranks, the police know it would be near on impossible to walk in to a hospital without hard evidence and accuse any member of staff of wrong doing, their hands are tied, as in this case even those medical profession at the top of their field were duped by this seemingly shy, mild mannered, monster. With respect, those medical professionals were not duped. Their concerns were deliberately sidelined by non-medically trained management. Possibly criminally so.
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