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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 18, 2023 1:26:23 GMT
Perhaps it's a point in time when the question needs to be asked: what sort of a military does the UK need and what is it actually for. Aircraft carriers for example, what are they for? Apart from cruising round the South China Sea and irritating the Chinese. Hundreds of main battle battle tanks, where are they likely to be of use in the foreseeable future? What are the threats that confront the UK during this century and what needs to be in place to deal with them? Dan, you sound like a politician who's brief it is to justify cutting the defence budget. You ask what threats confront the UK, and the answer is, no ones knows. Wars aren't planned and published in advance, they tend to happen very quickly. For 30 years I've been listening to politicians try to justify smaller is better, we've heard it all before. 'A leaner fitter armed force', 'a smaller better equipped armed force'. It sounds wonderful and budgets are slashed and it will indeed be wonderful, until the armed forces are needed. Infantry will never go out of fashion, I don't care what you've heard infantry will never go out of fashion, and infantry cant operate without support, and it's expensive. The armed forces are a national insurance policy, the level of cover depends on the government, and I think most people are aware that at the moment we have less than third party cover. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 18, 2023 6:22:38 GMT
I misread it, I thought it said EU defence farce. They are doing well enough against arguably the largest military in the world. |
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Post by sheepy on Aug 18, 2023 6:25:28 GMT
I misread it, I thought it said EU defence farce. They are doing well enough against arguably the largest military in the world. LOL what does that even mean? |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 18, 2023 6:33:14 GMT
Still not clear what Germany's disinclination to meet NATO's 2% of GDP target for military spending has to do with the European Defence Force. What is the EDF anyway? Macron wants a European Defence Force - that requires that EU nations increase their defence capability. If they cannot meet their existing NATO requirements they have no chance of being strong enough for an independent EU force. No. The proposal is to coordinate the military capability. Europe is, however, doing well enough against arguably the world's largest military force. NATO needs reimagining but the purpose remains, IMO valid. No single Eastern country can hold back Russia. And if Russia crosses into Europe, the economic tsunami will be global. It already has been affected due to Ukraine. However i have far more faith in the private unelected NATO officials who know about what is really going on than any elected lying politician and certainly more than your average citizen. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 18, 2023 6:35:35 GMT
They are doing well enough against arguably the largest military in the world. LOL what does that even mean? Oh you havent heard of the European joint effort to support Ukraine? I am amazed thay had to be explained to you. |
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Post by buccaneer on Aug 18, 2023 6:48:26 GMT
Are the Germans sending five thousand extra helmets along with some broomsticks?
Is Macron still trying to persuade Ukraine into Finlandization to Russia?
The EU are a joke.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 18, 2023 6:55:26 GMT
I misread it, I thought it said EU defence farce. They are doing well enough against arguably the largest military in the world. The Yanks are doing the bulk of the heavy lifting in Ukraine - the EU are hanging onto their coat-tails as usual. If the Yanks ceased supplying weapons the war would be over tomorrow and there is not a damn thing Europe could do about it.  |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 18, 2023 7:18:08 GMT
Twas ever thus.
The US will always be waging a proxy war against Russia.
And it can afford to do so.
We do what we can.
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 18, 2023 8:22:11 GMT
Still not clear what Germany's disinclination to meet NATO's 2% of GDP target for military spending has to do with the European Defence Force. What is the EDF anyway? Macron wants a European Defence Force - that requires that EU nations increase their defence capability. If they cannot meet their existing NATO requirements they have no chance of being strong enough for an independent EU force. I'd say it very much depends what the role of a European Defence Force is intended to be. If it's a straightforward continuation of the 1940s-era Truman Doctrine whose sole purpose was to encircle the USSR with a 'ring of steel' then I'd agree it would need to look and act very much like NATO does today.
If, however, it was concerned solely with protection of the European homeland then it would need to be a very different beast. As noted earlier, it isn't 1949 anymore.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 18, 2023 8:33:19 GMT
I am pretty sure those in charge of NATO know what they are doing.
The stage managed meetings and tabloid headlines are no indication of what goes on, any more than we know what MI6 is really doing.
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Post by Vinny on Aug 18, 2023 8:45:45 GMT
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 18, 2023 8:52:31 GMT
The truth of the matter is that after losing two world world wars the Germans have lost the taste for overseas military adventures unlike the USA and its Chief Poodle, the UK.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 18, 2023 8:54:47 GMT
It might make Iggy less Iggy if he understood the terms and conditions Germany signed when it lost the war.
No military presence.
No military equipment.
The fact that Germany has ANY presence in the European defense indicates the seriousness with which it takes the Russian attack in the Ukraine.
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Post by Vinny on Aug 18, 2023 9:09:08 GMT
The truth of the matter is that after losing two world world wars the Germans have lost the taste for overseas military adventures unlike the USA and its Chief Poodle, the UK. Germany initiated two world wars and happens to be ashamed of that. Nevertheless they are an important partner in NATO, despite how badly their military is mismanaged. An EU military, would be even more badly managed, Ursula has form and it isn't good. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2023 9:15:31 GMT
I misread it, I thought it said EU defence farce. They are doing well enough against arguably the largest military in the world. Really? Are they fighting a war? I see Germany have purchased Israeli defence missiles. Is that what you mean? |
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