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Post by Pacifico on Aug 16, 2023 17:58:04 GMT
Seems that the proposed EU army is going to be relying on broomsticks for a while..
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 16, 2023 20:42:14 GMT
An interesting topic which raises a number of points.
One being that 2% of German GDP is a rather larger number than anyone else's, including the UK. And another being what does NATO have to do with the EU?
Come to that what does it have to do with Europe generally? Quite a few European states are not members of NATO and quite a few NATO members are not European states.
Time for a rethink? It's not 1949 anymore.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 16, 2023 21:15:47 GMT
Germany has been getting a free ride on Defence for decades by relying on the UK and US. The war in Ukraine finally seemed to make them wake up and finally decide to be a leader in Europe - which is needed with the proposed EU Defence force.
Now it seems the Germans have gone back to looking to others to take the lead.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 16, 2023 23:35:47 GMT
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 17, 2023 6:39:12 GMT
Well I agree that spending on defence in the UK is too small but we still have the second largest spend in NATO.
As Trump pointed out - most countries in Europe have been getting a free ride on US coat-tails for decades.
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Post by sheepy on Aug 17, 2023 6:43:56 GMT
I misread it, I thought it said EU defence farce.
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 17, 2023 7:19:53 GMT
A free ride on US coat-tails to where, exactly?
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2023 8:03:19 GMT
A free ride on US coat-tails to where, exactly? Oblivion, if we are not careful. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 17, 2023 13:22:02 GMT
The British army is at it's smallest since the Napoleonic wars, early 1800's. What was it Tom King said when he defended huge defence cuts... ...with the fall of communism comes peace in Europe. Ha. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 17, 2023 18:08:17 GMT
75 years after NATO was formed, the necessity is and will be active.
But the reality of how this is done has changed hugely.
I would like to know if these statistics include the development of drones which do everything from gather information to deliver missiles.
Or the methods of placing encryption in our comms and breaking encryption in theirs.
Do the stats of spending as a % of GDP include the development of AI ?
I dont think the simplistic bean counting of personnel and traditional equipment is very relevant anymore.
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Post by buccaneer on Aug 17, 2023 19:47:36 GMT
75 years after NATO was formed, the necessity is and will be active. But the reality of how this is done has changed hugely. I would like to know if these statistics include the development of drones which do everything from gather information to deliver missiles. Or the methods of placing encryption in our comms and breaking encryption in theirs. Do the stats of spending as a % of GDP include the development of AI ? I dont think the simplistic bean counting of personnel and traditional equipment is very relevant anymore. You're all over the place. Here just a reminder: |
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 17, 2023 21:13:00 GMT
Perhaps it's a point in time when the question needs to be asked: what sort of a military does the UK need and what is it actually for.
Aircraft carriers for example, what are they for? Apart from cruising round the South China Sea and irritating the Chinese.
Hundreds of main battle battle tanks, where are they likely to be of use in the foreseeable future?
What are the threats that confront the UK during this century and what needs to be in place to deal with them?
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 17, 2023 21:26:33 GMT
The UK is not a participant in the EU Defence Force.
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 17, 2023 21:42:00 GMT
Still not clear what Germany's disinclination to meet NATO's 2% of GDP target for military spending has to do with the European Defence Force.
What is the EDF anyway?
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 17, 2023 21:49:06 GMT
Still not clear what Germany's disinclination to meet NATO's 2% of GDP target for military spending has to do with the European Defence Force. What is the EDF anyway? Macron wants a European Defence Force - that requires that EU nations increase their defence capability. If they cannot meet their existing NATO requirements they have no chance of being strong enough for an independent EU force. |
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