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Post by Pacifico on Aug 20, 2023 10:39:23 GMT
Certainly tying ourselves to the EU has done the UK economy no favours at all. Whether the current crop of politicians have the nous to steer a different course and improve looks to be increasingly unlikely though.  Sillycomment. The US economy grew through selling arms to more people. It always does. You have no idea what the UK economy would be today without being tied to the EU which, by the way, has made favourable trade deals with half the world and which you still use enthusiastically. You want to steer a different course? Anul the trade deals and start again. Then we can see how adverse your relationship has been for the UK economy. The trurh is if you continue to use them the EU will always be pulling your strings, with no input from you. If you dont use them you are dead in the water. So ho, about not writing a new chapter on how a newly birthed UK is going to be the colonial power and hold the wealth of the economic world it once did and start realising that you are between a rock and a hard place by your own doing. If you believe the European Council on Foreign Relations are wrong in their assessment then you should use facts rather than rhetoric to prove it. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 20, 2023 11:14:19 GMT
In this case facts and rhetoric are the same.
The problem in the above is that it is predicated on something that has not happened.
The narrative could be anything you prefer to imagine. You are into Wizard of Oz land.
Course if the UK wants to invest billions in arms manufacture and tool up anyone who asks, as the US does, the UK might increase its GDP a bit more quickly.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Aug 20, 2023 11:27:56 GMT
I remember you gleefully revelling in the doomsday forecasts for Brexit Britain regarding the economy. And now, with your tail between your legs on that matter you build a strawman fallacy. Is that because you think it removes the egg from your face? Did I? I dont think i have done any such thing since i joined here last year. However the UK remains one of the slowest growing economies in Europe. Your problem is that you dont understand what the numbers mean. If you have 2 and add 2 you have increased your holdings by 100%. Sounds wonderful But if you have 200 and add 2 your % increase is tiny. But the total is still far higher than the first example. If you merely reporting % increase you are reporting misinformation if you pretend it represents much of anything 2% of 2 is tiny. 2% of 200 is far larger in real terms if not in headline percentages. Perhaps it is better not to post about economics until you understand them. www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpmonthlyestimateuk/june2023#main-points‐---------However This better-than-expected start to the year lifts the growth outlook for the EU economy to 1.0% in 2023 (0.8% in the Winter interim Forecast) and 1.7% in 2024 (1.6% in the winter). Upward revisions for the euro area are of a similar magnitude, with GDP growth now expected at 1.1% and 1.6% in 2023 and 2024 respectively.May 15, 2023 ec.europa.eu › detail Spring 2023 Economic Forecast - European Commission So your .2% growth in GDP is set against 1% in the EU. IOW, one fifth. If i had written a negative outlook, i would have been right. The same children in adults clothes write the Telegraph as are employed in the government. Writing trash in the Times and Telegraph is a prerequisite to running the country and writing for the Daily Mail is the apprenticeship in that line of career. |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 20, 2023 15:00:45 GMT
In this case facts and rhetoric are the same. The problem in the above is that it is predicated on something that has not happened. Eh? - It is historical fact that in 2008 the EU's economy was larger than the US's and that since then the US have powered ahead and is a third bigger than the EU & UK combined. That is a tale of woeful performance that has actually happened. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 20, 2023 15:33:43 GMT
As i have said, the US is doing whatcit always does and sells arms to those fifhting 5heir proxy wars. Od course the US economy is booming! It boomed even more during the VietNam war and Korea. As long as any war is not fought on US territory they can remain 5he richest place on earth. It is not surprising that the approval of the US is needed for other countries to supply arms to Ukraine. www.reuters.com/world/us-approves-sending-f-16s-ukraine-denmark-netherlands-2023-08-17/#:~:text=WASHINGTON%2C%20Aug%2017%20(Reuters),U.S.%20official%20said%20on%20Thursday. The US controls all the wars in the world except the small tribal conflicts. Israel Syria Ukraine Iran Iraq Afghanistan Libya There isnt ine where the USA hasnt made a HUGE profit. |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 20, 2023 17:05:57 GMT
The US defence sector accounts for just 3% of total GDP - how can something that small drive the entire US economy to outperform Europe so comprehensively.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 20, 2023 18:20:29 GMT
The US defence sector accounts for just 3% of total GDP - how can something that small drive the entire US economy to outperform Europe so comprehensively. I didnt say it DROVE the economy. I said it contributed a huge amount of money. Dont you start rephrasing my posts to make them say something different so you can argue wirh them. |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 20, 2023 21:15:37 GMT
The US defence sector accounts for just 3% of total GDP - how can something that small drive the entire US economy to outperform Europe so comprehensively. I didnt say it DROVE the economy. I said it contributed a huge amount of money. Dont you start rephrasing my posts to make them say something different so you can argue wirh them. In what world is 3% a 'huge amount of money'? The US has gone from being smaller than the EU to 30% bigger in just 15 years - you dont do that by reliance on a sector that only contributes 3% GDP in total. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 20, 2023 22:29:38 GMT
You do when you have the biggest GDP in the world, accumulated through 75 years of supplying and using arms in all the major conflicts un the world. Compare 3% of ten pounds to 3% of 100 pounds over 75 years. The USA wasnt particularly rich until WW2. They discovered how valuable it is to finance wars then and have been doing it ever since. www.globaltimes.cn/page/202109/1234813.shtmlThe military budget of the United States for the 2009 fiscal year was $515.4 billion. Adding emergency discretionary spending and supplemental spending brings the sum to $651.2 billion.[40] This does not include many military-related items that are outside of the Defense Department budget. Overall the U.S. federal government is spending about $1 trillion annually on defense-related purposes.[41] In a 2012 story, Salon reported, "Despite a decline in global arms sales in 2010 due to recessionary pressures, the United States increased its market share, accounting for a whopping 53 percent of the trade that year. Last year saw the United States on pace to deliver more than $46 billion in foreign arms sales."[42] The defense industry also tends to contribute heavily to incumbent members of Congress.[43] en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_complexI dont know how this conversation drifted to this, but 3% of trillions is a rather alarming figure. The question as far as i can remember was about relative GDP's. The question was not in percentage GDP but in how a country controls others. The answer is that 3% of the US GDP is enough . 3% of any other country's GDP is dwarfed by this. And the USA achieved global superiority post WW2 through arms sales ( and the Marshall Plan) by either promoting or participating in virtually every war since then. And then rebuilding the buildings it bombed. |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 21, 2023 7:06:01 GMT
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Post by buccaneer on Aug 21, 2023 7:46:09 GMT
In this case facts and rhetoric are the same. The problem in the above is that it is predicated on something that has not happened.
The narrative could be anything you prefer to imagine. You are into Wizard of Oz land.Course if the UK wants to invest billions in arms manufacture and tool up anyone who asks, as the US does, the UK might increase its GDP a bit more quickly. Ha This coming from someone who's claimed the UK's economy is 5% smaller than it would have been if had been part of the EU. You are a walking contradiction. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 21, 2023 8:27:31 GMT
In this case facts and rhetoric are the same. The problem in the above is that it is predicated on something that has not happened.
The narrative could be anything you prefer to imagine. You are into Wizard of Oz land.Course if the UK wants to invest billions in arms manufacture and tool up anyone who asks, as the US does, the UK might increase its GDP a bit more quickly. Ha This coming from someone who's claimed the UK's economy is 5% smaller than it would have been if had been part of the EU. You are a walking contradiction. Morning Bubbles There is zero contradiction in the two concepts you compare above. Forezver blowing bubbles. |
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Post by buccaneer on Aug 21, 2023 8:49:28 GMT
Ha This coming from someone who's claimed the UK's economy is 5% smaller than it would have been if had been part of the EU. You are a walking contradiction. Morning Bubbles There is zero contradiction in the two concepts you compare above. Forezver blowing bubbles. You were sussed out long ago for talking shit. And this is more of it. You are just a bitter Briton living in France who's own personal circumstance has been interrupted by Brexit. And now you've gone full gammon: EU right, Britain wrong. You need to get a husband. |
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Post by bancroft on Aug 21, 2023 10:10:53 GMT
The Brexit comparison is still not right, we can see this with the EU threats over scrapping the ECHR we are still not independent.
That will need to be addressed but when?
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 21, 2023 12:29:00 GMT
Morning Bubbles There is zero contradiction in the two concepts you compare above. Forezver blowing bubbles. You were sussed out long ago for talking shit. And this is more of it. You are just a bitter Briton living in France who's own personal circumstance has been interrupted by Brexit. And now you've gone full gammon: EU right, Britain wrong. You need to get a husband. Having just lost one after five years of ill health only 4 months ago, i find your remarks disgusting. Further, for the record, I am a FRENCH person living in France and my life is untouched by Brexit. Now fukkoff. |
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