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Post by sandypine on Aug 7, 2023 14:16:58 GMT
I am not crawling back and have no desire for our government to act in such a way. The real example is independence, if you cannot see that then I cannot help you, but that stands head and shoulders above all else. The British electorate took back our independence it was not given to us. The political class have spent 50 years trying to enmesh us into the EU system, with some success, it was always going to be a bumpy road as we could not expect goodwill from the EU and it has been distinctly lacking in many Remainers especially those with a bit of power in government and in Parliament. Very nice speech. How3ver did you know that every proposed piece of legislation has to be approved by each member's "parliament" which can propose amendments ? And do please give examples of this independence you had lost. Nor just party political speeches. And what benefits has this new independence brought you? Raw sewage on beaches? ( there is an EU directive making that illegal). Easier trade and travel? Lower prices? Faster transport? S7bsidi3s and regional aid that the EU used to give po0rer regions such as Cornwall? WHAT BENEFITS HAS INDEPENDENCE BROUGHT YOU?? You are still missing the whole point Independence is enough in its own right. This means we can progress, regress, succeed or cock it up all on our own cognizance. Many of us believe that the inflexibility within teh EU to change any of its basic values is the problem. The electorate are not allowed to decide teh system, they have the system imposed and are allowed to tinker with its workings. In the UK we can if we wish bring down and restructure the whole caboodle through the democratic process. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 7, 2023 15:08:10 GMT
Ffs
Another fool who absorbbs conspiracy theories.
How can a voluntary alliance of democratic countries which demands the approval of each national government plus their elected leader and national democratically elected representatives,
be accused od tellung you what to di WIRHOUT YOUR APPROVAL.
plus most of the legislation the EU passes is NOT mandatory.
Les's cut to the chase.
EXACTLY WHAT CAN YOU DO NOW ANS THAT YOU HAVE DONE SINCE 2016 THAT YOU COULD NOT DO IN THE EU??
And do you really want to live in some disconnected fucked up island?? Even if you elect fucked up governments, as you seem to do?
Mind you you could have done that while in the EU too.
Enough. If you are so absorbed by this myth that you can now do anything you like, why are you hoping for a trade deal with the EU and the USA , where both put restrictions on your economy and growth, and why are you needing France to "protect your own borders" and why are you begging to be let back into Horizon?
No you cant do what you want. I have booked ten days in Boston USA at the end of September.
Next year you will need a visa even to enter the EU. Your INDEPENDENCE OF MOVEMENT is gone.
If the EU changes standards of goods or services in order to be allowed to trade, YOU WILL HAVE TO COMPLY.
That isnt independence.
You live in an imaginary box with no windows.
You arent more independent. You are LESS independent.
So i ask again, WHAT CAN YOU DO NOW THAT THE EU STOPPED YOU FROM DOING??
Frankly, you drank the Kool Aid.
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Post by Vinny on Aug 7, 2023 17:35:03 GMT
Poor bruised bad loser Europhiles ignore that we're selling far more to the EU than we did as members (£340 billion rather than 2015 level trade which when inflation adjusted comes out at £297 billion), we're selling more to the rest of the world than we did as members and we've dodged a recession that we'd now be heavily hit by if we'd stayed.
Things may not be amazing, but we're doing a hell of a lot better than we were in 2015 when our exports to the EU were £223.3 billion.
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Post by sandypine on Aug 7, 2023 19:30:22 GMT
Ffs Another fool who absorbbs conspiracy theories. How can a voluntary alliance of democratic countries which demands the approval of each national government plus their elected leader and national democratically elected representatives, be accused od tellung you what to di WIRHOUT YOUR APPROVAL. plus most of the legislation the EU passes is NOT mandatory. Les's cut to the chase. EXACTLY WHAT CAN YOU DO NOW ANS THAT YOU HAVE DONE SINCE 2016 THAT YOU COULD NOT DO IN THE EU?? And do you really want to live in some disconnected fucked up island?? Even if you elect fucked up governments, as you seem to do? Mind you you could have done that while in the EU too. Enough. If you are so absorbed by this myth that you can now do anything you like, why are you hoping for a trade deal with the EU and the USA , where both put restrictions on your economy and growth, and why are you needing France to "protect your own borders" and why are you begging to be let back into Horizon? No you cant do what you want. I have booked ten days in Boston USA at the end of September. Next year you will need a visa even to enter the EU. Your INDEPENDENCE OF MOVEMENT is gone. If the EU changes standards of goods or services in order to be allowed to trade, YOU WILL HAVE TO COMPLY. That isnt independence. You live in an imaginary box with no windows. You arent more independent. You are LESS independent. So i ask again, WHAT CAN YOU DO NOW THAT THE EU STOPPED YOU FROM DOING?? Frankly, you drank the Kool Aid. I am not sure who you are speaking to I assume it is me. I will try one more time to help you understand. The whole system in the EU has been structured from the top down. The system is largely set in stone the freedoms, the court, the parliament, the Commission. The parliament can tinker with the details but cannot change the system which is largely structured so that change is at best difficult because the Treaties are the legal entities. What we have regained is the capability of the electorate to bring down any government within a specific timeframe as well as the capability to vote to change the whole system from top to bottom should they so wish. That could not be done within the EU as the Treaties were binding and any move by Parliament could be legally blocked by the Commission. Independence brings its own restrictions but then that is the nature of independence and has been the way of all nations from the US to India |
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Post by Vinny on Aug 7, 2023 20:24:00 GMT
You're talking to Kim, Kim supports the overbearing top down nature of the EU.
Kim likes the Commisson.
It's a flawed system but it's a gravy train for the morally bankrupt.
Kim knows this and does not call for reform or replacement.
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Post by Bentley on Aug 7, 2023 20:34:04 GMT
Brexit is the only event I can think of where history is written by the losers.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 7, 2023 22:08:22 GMT
Brexit is the only event I can think of where history is written by the losers. Indeed.. History will see they were correct. And that the conned and deceived winners caused the decline of the UK'S demise. Now stop talking in prophetic terms and discuss the here and now. I have asked you practcal questions. What is better about the UK now you left and why do you want to crawl back little by little. FFS answer the questions and stop the bullshit pre 2026 lies. How is your border more secure? How is your food cheaper? Your economy better? How is your trade deals wirh Eastern countries better than those with the EU? What the idea did was allow the most inane corrupt PM ever to have not only lost his position in the shortest recordable time not compared to a lettuce but also his local representative status. And become an international joke. The EU isnt bitter. It just doesnt give a fuck. You arent importanr enough to spend time bothering about. What proof do you have that the EU gives a damn what you do??? |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 7, 2023 22:14:59 GMT
You're talking to Kim, Kim supports the overbearing top down nature of the EU. Kim likes the Commisson. It's a flawed system but it's a gravy train for the morally bankrupt. Kim knows this and does not call for reform or replacement. From French ignorer, from Latin ignōrō (“to have no knowledge of, mistake, take no notice of, ignore”), from ignārus (“not knowing”), from in + gnārus (“knowing”), from gnōscō, nōscō; see know. en.m.wiktionary.org › wiki ignore - Wiktionary HI IGGY!! 😂😂 |
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Post by Vinny on Aug 7, 2023 22:29:16 GMT
Remoaners will be the laughing stock of the world in one generation's time.
They were wrong in 2010 when the debate got interesting, wrong in 2013 when the Tories made a membership referendum official policy, wrong in 2016 wrong now and they're still not able to face facts.
The economy is growing.
There's a free trade agreement they said would take half a decade to negotiate.
Our sales to the EU are doing better than they were before the referendum.
Anything bad is due to the global Covid pandemic and the war.
And the EU are suffering far more than we are due to their over dependence on Russian gas and oil.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 8, 2023 5:53:09 GMT
Morning Iggy!
Your economy is over 5% lower than it would have been had you still been a member.
Stop repeating stupid singular items to prove what you want.
I already told you. The overt rise in the VALUE of sales, not the AMOUNT, is due to INFLATION where the pound is worth LESS so the NUMBER of the value of sales is higher.
Now stop telling lies, there's a good little boy.
Your economy is NOT growing. Iggy by name, Iggy by nature.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Aug 8, 2023 8:49:03 GMT
But as a foreigner, why do you care?
Unless you're still smarting at some imaginary snub?
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Post by Vinny on Aug 8, 2023 8:58:00 GMT
Cultism can have weird effects on people.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 8, 2023 9:29:27 GMT
But as a foreigner, why do you care? Unless you're still smarting at some imaginary snub? I am fortunate enough to be a citizen of two countries. And by the way pay taxes in two. You are unfortunately culturally and mentally arrested on your small island. Now stop the stupid comments you make when you have nothing of any earthly use but want to ensure you are still breathing by squeaking. |
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Post by Vinny on Aug 8, 2023 10:01:46 GMT
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Aug 8, 2023 10:04:38 GMT
I am fortunate enough to be a citizen of two countries. And by the way pay taxes in two. You are unfortunately culturally and mentally arrested on your small island. Now stop the stupid comments you make when you have nothing of any earthly use but want to ensure you are still breathing by squeaking. OK, you ask what we gained from Brexit. But let's ask a more pertinent question: What did we (as in the everyday person in their everyday lives) lose? And the answer for me is: Nothing. I can't tell the difference pre and post Brexit. Most people can't. So what did the EU do for us? Absolutely nothing. |
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