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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2023 13:30:35 GMT
The provisions contained within the EEC were simply transfered to the EU, including all the other treaties which were consumed by The EEC, including The Treaty Of Rome, and the Schuman Declaration which had always contained the principles of Freedom Of Movement etc as an eventual goal. When Mr Edward Heath took us into the EEC, the political aims were within the treaty including The Four Freedoms and the principle of further and closer integration. In matters of trade with Britain and member states of the European Union, ONLY the EU is the correct and appropriate body to talk to. Only that none of it had the consent of the people, because they were effectively lied to while more and more treaties, that were designed to subjegate, were pushed through by politicians without consent or approval from the people. The moment the people got a say they voted to leave. I understand legal dictatorships are your thing, but they're so detached from democracy that the EU may as well be ruled by corporate think-tanks and Mussolini. Oh wait, it is. This is what is contained within The Treaty Of Rome as signed by British officials in 1973 "By the signature of this Treaty, the involved parties give proof of their determination to create the first supranational institution and that thus they are laying the true foundation of an organised Europe. This Europe remains open to all European countries that have freedom of choice. We profoundly hope that other countries will join us in our common endeavour." THE EUROPEAN DECLARATION
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2023 13:41:41 GMT
Members aren't allowed to talk to other countries without daddy's say so, as you pointed out whilst bragging. Daddy is somebody who has to put the EU's interests above all members, and he takes direction from corporate think-tanks to steer a legal dictatorship that the ordinary people have no say over.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2023 14:00:18 GMT
Only that none of it had the consent of the people, because they were effectively lied to while more and more treaties, that were designed to subjegate, were pushed through by politicians without consent or approval from the people. The moment the people got a say they voted to leave. I understand legal dictatorships are your thing, but they're so detached from democracy that the EU may as well be ruled by corporate think-tanks and Mussolini. Oh wait, it is. This is what is contained within The Treaty Of Rome as signed by British officials in 1973 "By the signature of this Treaty, the involved parties give proof of their determination to create the first supranational institution and that thus they are laying the true foundation of an organised Europe. This Europe remains open to all European countries that have freedom of choice. We profoundly hope that other countries will join us in our common endeavour." THE EUROPEAN DECLARATION The Treaty of Rome was an economic idea founded in the aftermath of Germany's world war (they started two of them). It was overridden by The Maastricht Treaty. With every treaty it became something different and something more authoritarian and controlling. There's no way the people voted for the EU we see today, which is why they voted leave at the first opportunity.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2023 14:20:03 GMT
"at the first opportunity" which by the way was in 1975, the people of Britain voted to REMAIN
The Schuman Declaration and The European Declaration formed the basis of the embryo of what is today the European Union, it created the Coal & Steel Community.
But it always made it very clear that it was much more than just trade
The Treaty of Rome (1957) contains these words ... The treaty proposed the progressive reduction of customs duties and the establishment of a customs union. It proposed to create a single market for goods, labour, services, and capital across member states. It also proposed the creation of a Common Agriculture Policy, a Common Transport Policy and a European Social Fund and established the European Commission.
Often refered to as The European Dream, the early proponents of the idea of a United Europe included Sir Winston Churchill.
It was, and still is a noble idea of bringing the countries of Europe together after two devastating World Wars, and to share a common purpose, pool sovereignty, co-operate and work together.
No ill conceived referendum based on jingoistic, outdated nationalism, or on some perverted notion that Britain is still some kind of superpower, or any of the lies conveyed to The People during that now outdated referendum, will ever change the fact that a United Europe is an extremely good idea.
All trade done between France and the UK is via the EU-UK trade agreement, and I hope the EU makes that clear to our meddling government.
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Post by thomas on Aug 5, 2023 14:27:51 GMT
"at the first opportunity" which by the way was in 1975, the people of Britain voted to REMAIN The Schuman Declaration and The European Declaration formed the basis of the embryo of what is today the European Union, it created the Coal & Steel Community. But it always made it very clear that it was much more than just trade The Treaty of Rome (1957) contains these words ... The treaty proposed the progressive reduction of customs duties and the establishment of a customs union. It proposed to create a single market for goods, labour, services, and capital across member states. It also proposed the creation of a Common Agriculture Policy, a Common Transport Policy and a European Social Fund and established the European Commission. Often refered to as The European Dream, the early proponents of the idea of a United Europe included Sir Winston Churchill. It was, and still is a noble idea of bringing the countries of Europe together after two devastating World Wars, and to share a common purpose, pool sovereignty, co-operate and work together. No ill conceived referendum based on jingoistic, outdated nationalism, or on some perverted notion that Britain is still some kind of superpower, or any of the lies conveyed to The People during that now outdated referendum, will ever change the fact that a United Europe is an extremely good idea. All trade done between France and the UK is via the EU-UK trade agreement, and I hope the EU makes that clear to our meddling government. ...and sir kid starver is constantly telling us he is going to make brexit work........
The effort that the party faithfull like you sid put into defending the EU to the very death is extremely telling.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2023 14:28:08 GMT
Do you actually listen to what people are saying, Sid? Sure, you can smear the people and scream racist or make up any old drivel to put down the UK, but it didn't work then and it doesn't work now. The argument was democracy, actual freedom of choice and to do away with the appalling bureaucracy, dodgy book keeping and growing authoritarian rule by a system of power that we, the people, have no say over. The fact that France, a once proud country, can't even talk to the UK only sums it up. LOL
Those who want to see the UK broken up or campaigned to abolish British democracy (those who campaigned to ignore the referendum) are your people, Sid.
Also, Hitler wanted the EU too, Sid - "A great European New Order!"
The EU's ambitions aren't too far from the Nazis:
— Joseph Goebbels, Reich Minister of Propaganda, 8 May 1943
This isn't what the British people wanted, Sid.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 5, 2023 16:13:52 GMT
Do you actually listen to what people are saying, Sid? Sure, you can smear the people and scream racist or make up any old drivel to put down the UK, but it didn't work then and it doesn't work now. The argument was democracy, actual freedom of choice and to do away with the appalling bureaucracy, dodgy book keeping and growing authoritarian rule by a system of power that we, the people, have no say over. The fact that France, a once proud country, can't even talk to the UK only sums it up. LOL
Those who want to see the UK broken up or campaigned to abolish British democracy (those who campaigned to ignore the referendum) are your people, Sid.
Also, Hitler wanted the EU too, Sid - "A great European New Order!"
The EU's ambitions aren't too far from the Nazis:
— Joseph Goebbels, Reich Minister of Propaganda, 8 May 1943
This isn't what the British people wanted, Sid.
I know. That is why the Tories will lose the next election. No one gives a shite anymore about your Brexit angst. The promises made have not happened and the UK isn in a far worse state socially and economically than in 2016. And only Iggy cultists refuse to see it. All mouth and no knickers. And what has sovereignty done for you? Soddem i say. They dont count. Just noises off.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2023 16:28:18 GMT
Are you feeling OK, Oracle? Are you suffering from long-term Covid or Putin's energy war blues? If you're just another EUphile here to scream abuse then I may have to ignore it.
EDIT: I can see I won't be wasting my time on this one.
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Post by Vinny on Aug 5, 2023 16:42:21 GMT
If member states still have freedom of choice they can talk to us and work with us to eliminate friction.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 5, 2023 16:45:12 GMT
Are you feeling OK, Oracle? Are you suffering from long-term Covid or Putin's energy war blues? If you're just another EUphile here to scream abuse then I may have to ignore it. You do anyway. I am just telling you that the current creator and conveyor of Brexit cultist prophesies has bzen found out to be a dirty lying prophet and will be out in the desert very soon. Someone else will have to try to repair the broken precious antique vase. Cuz it is very very clear now that Brexit has done NOTHING to silve real problems, and has in fact added to them. And most people , because they are at least of average intelligence, now realise that. The rump who refuse to admit it, dont count.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2023 18:12:22 GMT
Do you actually listen to what people are saying, Sid? Sure, you can smear the people and scream racist or make up any old drivel to put down the UK, but it didn't work then and it doesn't work now. The argument was democracy, actual freedom of choice and to do away with the appalling bureaucracy, dodgy book keeping and growing authoritarian rule by a system of power that we, the people, have no say over. The fact that France, a once proud country, can't even talk to the UK only sums it up. LOL
Those who want to see the UK broken up or campaigned to abolish British democracy (those who campaigned to ignore the referendum) are your people, Sid.
Also, Hitler wanted the EU too, Sid - "A great European New Order!"
The EU's ambitions aren't too far from the Nazis:
— Joseph Goebbels, Reich Minister of Propaganda, 8 May 1943
This isn't what the British people wanted, Sid.
France controls the EU - not the other way around, thats how it works, the 26 members of the club run the EU, its collective, its called shared responsibility, the members run the show. Comparing a fascist dictator to the EU is childish in the extreme and the comparison is utterly ridiculous, EVERY member of the EU is a member because it was their desire to become members, it was not imposed upon anyone. Sir Edward Heath went into the 1970 general election with a mandate to take Britain into the EEC and he won that election. Later, Harold Wilson gave the people a referendum and the people said YES. NO ONE was shouting for a referendum in 2015, no one, except for politicians on the loony fringes such as the BNP and UKIP, membership of the EU was not a major issue, hardly anyone thought it was important except for those who sought to try and end the long running civil war in the Conservative Party. THE PUBLIC WERE NOT CALLING FOR A REFERENDUM David Cameron imposed the referendum upon the people of this country for his own ends, he made it an issue when it was not an issue. David Cameron successfully divided this country in a bitter and divisive campaign which was full of lies and hate, and the damage has still not been repaired. The issue is not going to go away because there are too many open wounds - the Tories have hastened on the potential breaking up of the United Kingdom ( NOT the Labour Party ), because Scotland has been taken out of the EU against the wishes of the people of Scotland. The SNP now have a very legitimate argument for a second referendum, namely that the constitutional position of Scotland has now drastically altered. Boris Johnsons very own Ministers have had to admit that leaving the EU has made us economically worse off, and they have had to agree that it has hit our growth. Where has all our membership fees gone ? - can anyone see anywhere where we are better off ?, are our public services better ( try not to laugh ), where is the extra £350 Million PER WEEK for our NHS ?, have waiting lists improved, what about ambulance response times or the time it takes to see your GP. The Conservatives, always self serving, always putting party before country, always with their noses in the trough, divide the country and then blame someone else. David Cameron - the man who tore Britain apart in the interests of his party
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 5, 2023 21:21:08 GMT
Christ Sid, how many years are you going to try and refight the same old arguments that were settled 7 years ago?..
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 6, 2023 7:53:27 GMT
As long as rinse and repeat idiots who have nothing else to argue about, start to steer the discussions back to the same misinformation and superficial garbage. It is a mentally disturbed declaration that when each piece of EU legislation is voted on THREE times and not by those who wtite it up, you call the UK undemocratic. That every proposed piece of legislation is published to every member "parliament" for approval. And then voted on by DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED EU council and Parliament. It is a pure lie to say the "unelected bureaucrats" create legislation. Legislation is launched by the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED COUNCIL AND PARLIAMENT. Sometimes by EU wide petitions. It is hilarious that anyone uses democratic events of 50 years ago as an argument against the EU. I mean not only is it factually incorrect but some rerun fools think it carries weight. I have no idea why this tiny rump of fools keep banging the same drum thinking next time it will make a different noise. YOU voted yo leave. And then criticise the EU for fraud when it has become crystal clear that the result was engineered by lies, data theft and incursion into people's personal use of their comms, false and utterly impossible promises and a seismic constitutional change wirh no plan other than the Mad Hatter's Tea Party. Dont talk about democratic will. It sounds like a third world coup. As for UK democracy, it is a joke. Unelectzd influential officials include the cabinet which produces legislation and then blackmails its party members to support it, judges, heads of the civil service, and those paying kingmakers, the members of the Tory party who were the only ones allowed to name the person for the top job. And lets not forget the second chamber...800 unelected pieces of thank you cards for financial services rendered. UK democracy is twisted and runs along the wheels of financial interst. Democratic it most certainly is not. Example...the pandemic made its way from east to west, the press was full of it, laughed when it hit Italy and never bothered to make ANY plans for a possible event. Too busy congratulating itself on winning Brexit. And when the pandemic did hit, Brexit beloved head honcho missed FIVE Cobra meetings to discuss what to do. Too busy writing amusing articles for the Telegraph and spending hundreds of thousands of loans on WALLPAPER. You runt of a rump of benighted bullshitters make me sick. When you actually understand the EU and its very simple democracy, then you can squeak up. But until you do, thankfully, no one is listening. You are in a locked room shouting repeated lies in the hope that in some Harry Potter manner, the doors will open. Meanwhile NO ONE in the EU gives a shite, other than the occasional chuckle, about what you think. Or the sighs when the UK comes begging for special third country permissions. If you are sovereign, give up the trade deals made by the EU, stop nagging about joining Horizon, and you promised, start to replace all those subsidies you got from the EU. Cornwall would be delighted.. www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/cornwall-set-less-half-replacement-6950559?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-targetLevelling up my ass. Just more post Brexit lying dribble . No wonder no one is paying attention to you. The great liberation has resulted in NOTHING bit avhuge rise in illegal immigration and in many cases, bankruptcy and hardship. Congratulations. Now enjoy whatever benefits you have achived. If you can find them.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 6, 2023 8:35:22 GMT
Now i will ask you again because i got no reply last time i asked. WHAT BENEFITS TO THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE AND WORK IN THE UK HAS BREXIT BROUGHT IN THE LAST 7 YEARS? Not the esoteric dreamland of promises and the better practice of democracy, but the existential, actual and practical benefits which were promised? And be careful to list only those things you couldnt do anyway while in the EU. Farming and those wonderful autonomous yrade deals with Australia and NZ? www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/29/uk-farmers-impact-brexit-trade-deal-losing-common-agricultural-policyHow about controlling your own borders? Stop begging France to help you to control your own borders. You are fecking lucky they are talking to you. They dont have to. Control of your money? The cost to the UK economy is generally estimated to be around 5%. Employment? EU workers went home and the UK is lacking about a million workers, causing businesses to close, the NHS is struggling and the thriving service/ hospitality industry . WHERE ARE THE ACTUAL EXISTENTIAL BENEFITS ?
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 6, 2023 9:37:50 GMT
You're confused again, let me explain, again. The EU is not a rules based trade alliance, that was the EEC or common market. The EU is an unelected and unremoveable political union. The provisions contained within the EEC were simply transfered to the EU, including all the other treaties which were consumed by The EEC, including The Treaty Of Rome, and the Schuman Declaration which had always contained the principles of Freedom Of Movement etc as an eventual goal. When Mr Edward Heath took us into the EEC, the political aims were within the treaty including The Four Freedoms and the principle of further and closer integration. In matters of trade with Britain and member states of the European Union, ONLY the EU is the correct and appropriate body to talk to. Sid, you can prevaricate all you like but it will not alter the fact that the EEC or Common Market was a non political trade organisation. Yes the aim of federalists was always, ever since the treaty of Rome, to impose a political union across Europe which for the UK became a reality in 1992 when John 'The Bastard' Major without the consent of the electorate signed Maastricht and handed us the the very centralised and political EU complete with unelected president, unelected executive, flag, anthem, currency, bank and court. As I said previously, the British government like any government can speak to and discuss anything they like with any government they choose too. The EU secretly attempting to ban member states from talking to countries outside of the bloc certainly shines a light on Europhiles claim that EU member states are independent and sovereign, dontcha think? Typical heavy handedness from the unelected autocratic Brussels politburo.
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