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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 10, 2022 8:59:29 GMT
Has for the extremism religious nutters in region whether that be Christian , Muslim or jewish is more conservative right wing then left.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 10, 2022 9:05:54 GMT
And what's the real problem in society?
The real problems are large and complex mostly, that's why the powers-that-be and the media like to distract from them.
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 10, 2022 9:14:13 GMT
Don't you think the ruling Governments could have something to do with the problems that the country faces like increased poverty?
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 10, 2022 9:20:22 GMT
Yes and no. I think that governments have less influence than some people like to think, hence control of the narrative becomes more important to them than dealing with the issues.
For example, black people are disproportionately more likely to be involved in crime and young black men are murdering each other at a prodigious rate. But the reasons behind that are complex and we can't touch the subject without risk of upsetting sizeable minorities, so it's far easier to just blame the police and claim that stop and search is racist. That's the current media/political narrative and meanwhile the murders continue. That's just one example, but there are plenty of others. Righties like to blame everything on immigrants, lefties like to blame everything on racism, the Tories and Brexit. But sadly, real life is a bit more complex than that. Which is why societal problems tend not to get solved regardless of who's in power. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 10, 2022 9:42:51 GMT
Don't shoot the messenger. But they are terrorists. Clearly they're not. They do not use violence or threats of violence to achieve their objectives. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 10, 2022 9:45:18 GMT
Oh I know that freedom of movement was "not just" for white Europeans, but you know full well that whites make up the majority of passport holders in the EU and that an unlimited number of EU passport holders had migration rights under the freedom of movement policy, irrespective of their CVs. It is racist to judge people by where they come from. It is not racist to judge people by who they actually are. A skilled person is a skilled person whether they're from Ireland, India, Iran, Israel, or wherever. A nice person is a nice person. A criminal is a criminal. People are not defined by their passports but their character and freedom of movement does not consider that. Ergo, freedom of movement is a fundamentally flawed quite possibly racist policy. The system of immigration advocated by the United Kingdom Independence Party and other Brexiteers is NON RACIST. Our system considers skills, earnings / savings, and whether people are criminals or not. The last thing we want is a situation of an economic immigrant failing and ending up sleeping rough on the streets. The system you support caused far too much of that. Another thing we don't want are criminals. Law abiding immigrants of any nationality or colour are welcome provided they pass the points test and that's down to their skills and means to cope and lack of criminal record. I'd rather have a load of skilled people come than a load of unskilled people any day. The skilled people are less likely to end up sleeping rough and dying. I'd rather a load of people came here to do the jobs we don't want to do, the unskilled ones. Leaving the well paid skilled jobs for our citizens. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 10, 2022 9:49:49 GMT
The legal process won't amount to much so being arrested is all part of the game when there is media coverage. If it started to be treated like terrorism then people should think twice before using this platform to commit crimes. Obviously this won't happen, because it ties in with all the talk about renewable and greener energy. I think the Police and Crown Prosecution Service are fully aware of what in Law constitutes acts of Terrorism or not, you did state that the Police are doing little or nothing about these protesters, however the Met in London have already made well over 600 hundred arrests last time I checked and are making arrests almost every day, other Forces are also making arrests. I did ask you what Tactics the Police should use to deal with these people, but you made no comment on that, as for the Media they will report on what the protesters are doing, which is exactly what the protesters want According to my son who knows some of the people involved in blocking the M25, they have thousands of willing volunteers happy to be arrested if it keeps awareness of their cause in the headlines. That's how serious they think it is! That made me wonder whether what they are asking for is that extreme or naïve. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 10, 2022 9:53:39 GMT
There's enough unskilled Brits who do want to do the unskilled jobs.
Where there are skilled jobs that locals cannot fill because it literally requires years of studies (and at least half of the British people are not academically gifted), that's what economic immigration should be for.
Our education system needs to diversify and offer more vocational options.
We need to get Brits doing the manual labouring jobs.
The idea that Brits don't want to do it, is horseshit, we are the nation who toiled down coal mines.
Can you think of a more mind numbing job ?
The real reason for the "Brits don't want to do it" lie, is that Brits form trade unions and ask to be properly paid.
Greedy bosses wanting people who are quasi slave labourers, that situation has to end.
I'm fucking glad to have voted for Brexit and if shit bosses can't get the staff, it's because they're shit bosses, it isn't because people don't want to work.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 10, 2022 9:55:59 GMT
So when the Labour Party were proposing to send migrants back to Africa they were pandering to racists?.. Probably. Because they are in pursuit of power for its own sake and don't care how or where they get the votes from to achieve it. There is no principle the typical Labour centrist won't shed for ministerial office. They are probably concerned about the Tories bouncing back with the support of the racist vote and want to keep some of it onside for themselves. At least that wouldn't surprise me. Remember, unlike you or most others around here, I was actually in the party and saw up close how the typical Blairite centrist types act, think, and behave. I have shared acrimonious meetings with some of them. They have no strong convictions they won't trade for power. The only thing they will never do in pursuit of power is risk upsetting the current establishment. So populist left leaning policies that might undo aspects of the thatcherite order are a definite no no. The establishment would never stand for it. Or a party recognising their ambitions are out of line with what the public want and adjusting. Its strange how the "typical Blairite centrist types" you describe are the ones that bought Labour out of the wilderness and back into power. Have you ever considered that you might be the odd ones out here? |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 10, 2022 10:02:21 GMT
Thing is Zany, our poor mental chap didn't kill anyone whereas people have died as a result of Stop Oils actions. And our poor mental chap is now dead, so whatever you call him now it's rather irrelevant. So do they in your opinion have to be successful in their attempts to kill people in order to be a terrorist? Throwing petrol bombs at a building full of people is pretty much in anyones books attempted murder. But if you blocked the road while taking a mobile phone call and someone had a heart attack and died because the ambulance was delayed, would you be happy to be convicted of murder rather than obstruction? Incidentally I was one of those trapped on the M11 for 2.5 hours on Monday and I was very p*ss*d off with the protesters. More pee'd with the BBC for not warning me about it on the news before I set off. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 10, 2022 10:18:09 GMT
And what's the real problem in society? Well that’s a very good question I think the biggest point is we have no such thing as society. Yes I know who said that but hang on. Can I take you back to my childhood and my early adulthood. I grew up in a street where I knew everyone. Well almost. As kids we played in the streets, as the child of a mother who had a part time job I, and my brother, was looked after between end of school and mum coming home from the office clerical job by a rota of essentially “adopted great aunties” the grandmothers of the kids in the street who took it in turns to look after a group of five or six kids for a few hours. The single parent mum across the road bringing up a kid of my age without a dad because he was killed in highly suspicious circumstances in Nigeria while working there for the oil company got her kid looked after no questions asked. But it wasn’t just kids though. We had a woman struggling to bring up a Down’s syndrome kid now in her late 20s and also suffering other problems who lost her husband in the war, a bloke down the road with one leg courtesy of same conflict. But we were all a community. What shocked me in Bracknell in the eighties was the degree to which nobody ever talked to anyone. The street parties that were held for the 1969 investiture of the current sovereign as Prince of wales, and the SILVER jubilee celebration in my then girlfriends village (god, the things she and I got up to, thank god there were no choppers with high power cameras and FLIR then) which were the obvious thing to do then, were unthinkable here now. I haven’t spoken to anyone in this street for the whole of the 25 years I’ve been here except for my immediate next door neighbours. There is no community here and no society just strangers fighting to pay the bills |
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 10, 2022 11:09:07 GMT
Don't shoot the messenger. But they are terrorists. Clearly they're not. They do not use violence or threats of violence to achieve their objectives. Except the definition also includes INTIMIDATION of civilians in pursuit of a political goal. And that they certainly DO The fact is they are committing criminal acts (they are in contempt of court) in pursuit of political goals, and it is time they found out the hard way that this is not permitted. And if they starve to death on hunger strike in their prison cells, so be it. Let them starve. And turn the heating off in their cells so they can practice what they preach. |
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Post by Toreador on Nov 10, 2022 11:11:07 GMT
And what's the real problem in society? Well that’s a very good question I think the biggest point is we have no such thing as society. Yes I know who said that but hang on. Can I take you back to my childhood and my early adulthood. I grew up in a street where I knew everyone. Well almost. As kids we played in the streets, as the child of a mother who had a part time job I, and my brother, was looked after between end of school and mum coming home from the office clerical job by a rota of essentially “adopted great aunties” the grandmothers of the kids in the street who took it in turns to look after a group of five or six kids for a few hours. The single parent mum across the road bringing up a kid of my age without a dad because he was killed in highly suspicious circumstances in Nigeria while working there for the oil company got her kid looked after no questions asked. But it wasn’t just kids though. We had a woman struggling to bring up a Down’s syndrome kid now in her late 20s and also suffering other problems who lost her husband in the war, a bloke down the road with one leg courtesy of same conflict. But we were all a community. What shocked me in Bracknell in the eighties was the degree to which nobody ever talked to anyone. The street parties that were held for the 1969 investiture of the current sovereign as Prince of wales, and the SILVER jubilee celebration in my then girlfriends village (god, the things she and I got up to, thank god there were no choppers with high power cameras and FLIR then) which were the obvious thing to do then, were unthinkable here now. I haven’t spoken to anyone in this street for the whole of the 25 years I’ve been here except for my immediate next door neighbours. There is no community here and no society just strangers fighting to pay the bills Yes I remember those times as the good old days. I remember when 6ft high fences replaced 3ft high fences where you could chat to the neighbours over the fence and kids could get to know each other from toddler age. When kids walked or ran to school because schools were close at hand, where a teacher could handle a class of 50 pupils in total silence with the occasional piece of chalk flying through the air at anyone who dare whisper......then the mid-sixties arrived. |
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Post by Handyman on Nov 10, 2022 11:18:02 GMT
Well that’s a very good question I think the biggest point is we have no such thing as society. Yes I know who said that but hang on. Can I take you back to my childhood and my early adulthood. I grew up in a street where I knew everyone. Well almost. As kids we played in the streets, as the child of a mother who had a part time job I, and my brother, was looked after between end of school and mum coming home from the office clerical job by a rota of essentially “adopted great aunties” the grandmothers of the kids in the street who took it in turns to look after a group of five or six kids for a few hours. The single parent mum across the road bringing up a kid of my age without a dad because he was killed in highly suspicious circumstances in Nigeria while working there for the oil company got her kid looked after no questions asked. But it wasn’t just kids though. We had a woman struggling to bring up a Down’s syndrome kid now in her late 20s and also suffering other problems who lost her husband in the war, a bloke down the road with one leg courtesy of same conflict. But we were all a community. What shocked me in Bracknell in the eighties was the degree to which nobody ever talked to anyone. The street parties that were held for the 1969 investiture of the current sovereign as Prince of wales, and the SILVER jubilee celebration in my then girlfriends village (god, the things she and I got up to, thank god there were no choppers with high power cameras and FLIR then) which were the obvious thing to do then, were unthinkable here now. I haven’t spoken to anyone in this street for the whole of the 25 years I’ve been here except for my immediate next door neighbours. There is no community here and no society just strangers fighting to pay the bills Yes I remember those times as the good old days. I remember when 6ft high fences replaced 3ft high fences where you could chat to the neighbours over the fence and kids could get to know each other from toddler age. When kids walked or ran to school because schools were close at hand, where a teacher could handle a class of 50 pupils in total silence with the occasional piece of chalk flying through the air at anyone who dare whisper......then the mid-sixties arrived. So, do I and times were much tougher back then, |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 10, 2022 11:35:58 GMT
According to my son who knows some of the people involved in blocking the M25, they have thousands of willing volunteers happy to be arrested if it keeps awareness of their cause in the headlines. That's how serious they think it is!... And how much they've been radicalised. |
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