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Post by sheepy on Jul 23, 2023 9:10:27 GMT
In some cases, and in some instances, some people do indeed change their views on things, I reckon we all have at some time in our lives. But the evidence here suggests that its not happening, as we move further away from 2016, the numbers of eligible voters who would vote REMAIN / Rejoin is growing. The EU is so bad, and so unworkable that of the few nations in Europe who are not already members, most are queuing up to join. The will of the people will not be ignored forever, its ok for the time been, because the referendum result is still relatively fresh. Our economy is worse off, even Boris Johnsons government in the end had to admit it, the London School of Economics say we are worse off, as does the IMF and the Institute for Fiscal Studies. Time is ticking Maybe a ride up the Thames will show you who is leading this remain nonsense, with their lines of mansions made from being part of the EU global scene. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2023 9:47:41 GMT
 Polls can be inaccurate, but many polls all showing a similar result are never far wrong Over time the mainstream polling organisations have devised systems where a wide cross section of the electorate are gauged, and they are refining their methodology all the time. The graph shows the widening gap based on many different polls from different organisations The most recent poll was conducted by YouGov between 13th and 14th July, and the result was REJOIN 51% ... STAY OUT 31% ... Neither 18%. This poll also shows that the only age group which now supports STAY OUT are the over 65s. docs.cdn.yougov.com/5y66bpmr12/Internal_Brexit_230714.pdf |
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Post by sheepy on Jul 23, 2023 9:50:34 GMT
View AttachmentPolls can be inaccurate, but many polls all showing a similar result are never far wrong Over time the mainstream polling organisations have devised systems where a wide cross section of the electorate are gauged, and they are refining their methodology all the time. The graph shows the widening gap based on many different polls from different organisations The most recent poll was conducted by YouGov between 13th and 14th July, and the result was REJOIN 51% ... STAY OUT 31% ... Neither 18%. This poll also shows that the only age group which now supports STAY OUT are the over 65s. docs.cdn.yougov.com/5y66bpmr12/Internal_Brexit_230714.pdf Would these be the same polls who said remain was a dead cert, while Labour would win a landslide? just wondering. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 23, 2023 9:50:47 GMT
In some cases, and in some instances, some people do indeed change their views on things, I reckon we all have at some time in our lives. But the evidence here suggests that its not happening, as we move further away from 2016, the numbers of eligible voters who would vote REMAIN / Rejoin is growing. The EU is so bad, and so unworkable that of the few nations in Europe who are not already members, most are queuing up to join. The will of the people will not be ignored forever, its ok for the time been, because the referendum result is still relatively fresh. Our economy is worse off, even Boris Johnsons government in the end had to admit it, the London School of Economics say we are worse off, as does the IMF and the Institute for Fiscal Studies. Time is ticking Are you replacing Gnome with posting rubbish of economic doom, and future prophecies of sunlight uplands in the low growth economic region that is the EU? |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 23, 2023 11:03:56 GMT
Carry on Sid - your campaign to join the slowest growing trade bloc on the planet is a gem..
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 23, 2023 14:59:05 GMT
In some cases, and in some instances, some people do indeed change their views on things, I reckon we all have at some time in our lives. But the evidence here suggests that its not happening, as we move further away from 2016, the numbers of eligible voters who would vote REMAIN / Rejoin is growing. The EU is so bad, and so unworkable that of the few nations in Europe who are not already members, most are queuing up to join. The will of the people will not be ignored forever, its ok for the time been, because the referendum result is still relatively fresh. Our economy is worse off, even Boris Johnsons government in the end had to admit it, the London School of Economics say we are worse off, as does the IMF and the Institute for Fiscal Studies. Time is ticking Here's a thought Sidney, Brexit will be a success, when we leave. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 23, 2023 16:28:21 GMT
Well, if there is such a large a majority in favour as you suggest, Labour should stand on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU at the next GE. What could possibly go wrong...  Outstanding comment and for me this blows away all these polls, if they are so sure it's no brainer. In other words they don't trust these polls either. pacifico is quite right though. If the left is SO sure Brexit was an unmitigated disaster , they should say so and make rejoining at any price, Euro, Schengen and all, a manifesto commitment. That will ensure my grand daughter never pays a penny in tax to a labour chancellor. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 23, 2023 16:32:15 GMT
Outstanding comment and for me this blows away all these polls, if they are so sure it's no brainer. In other words they don't trust these polls either. Keir Starmer will not go down the road of rejoin because the referendum and its result is still reletavely fresh, 7 years ago, and though I am absolutely convinced that we will rejoin one day, I do actually believe in democracy. The Labour leader would be accused of ignoring a legitimate referendum and it would reopen a sore wound which David Cameron inflicted upon this country, because when Cameron first brought up the idea of a referendum, EU membership was not a key issue amongst the electorate. The numbers of Pro EU membership voters is going to steadily grow, they are in the majority already, and when their voices become louder and louder, in 5 to 10 years time, some sensible person will suggest another referendum, 12 to 20 years after the last referendum. One of the main or key arguments will be that it would boost our economy, boost exports, make trading much easier, boost growth and open the way to a huge Single Market, which by then will probably be more than 30 countries. Such a referendum may have more than one option (1) Rejoin the EU (2) Become a member of the Single Market / The European Economic Area such as Norway. Its no use arguing against an eventual second referendum, because its highly likely that it will happen, but not for a few years yet. Yet Euro Scepticism was higher in 2014 than it was in 2016 when Cameron finally gave us tbe referendum he actually never thought he would need to. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 23, 2023 17:14:43 GMT
Our economy is worse off, even Boris Johnsons government in the end had to admit it, the London School of Economics say we are worse off, as does the IMF and the Institute for Fiscal Studies. Time is ticking Where do you get this misconception from ? Check the ONS figures. When it comes to exports our economy is far better off. Look at the export statistics from when we were members and adjust for inflation and compare with today. £340 billion exported to the EU last year and £432 billion imported from the EU.
George Osborne had told everyone that if we voted leave there would be an instant recession, not an instant economic boom. The vote to leave, and the process of preparing to leave, gave a great economic boost to this country. And since we left, we're still exporting trade of far more value than we used to, inflation adjusted. Here's the Bank of England inflation calculator: www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculatorExamine the pre referendum trade statistics yourself and put them through the inflation calculator, you'll see I'm right. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2023 17:29:44 GMT
Your arguments FOR or AGAINST rejoining the EU are not relevant, the fact is that most people now believe it was a mistake, there are lots of topics and threads Pro and Anti EU.
The fact is that how things currently stand, and how things are moving, it looks highly likely that the debate will be reopened in the future.
It absolutely stands to reason that if we are not part of the Single Market, selling to Europe and doing business with Europe is going to be harder than if we were members. I know this to be true because shellfish exporters are pulling their hair out at the delays, extra paperwork and rules and regulations compared to how it was.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 23, 2023 18:13:13 GMT
You are posting polls. One of whom came from Peter Kellner, husband of Baroness Ashton, former EU Commissioner.
Polls are not referendum results.
And we are not having another referendum any time soon.
We are out and Brexit is a success.
And you didn't answer where you got your misconceptions of economic failure came from?
The benchmark for success, inflation adjusted is £297 billion (£223.3bn in 2015 inflation ajusted to the present is £297 billion). We sold £340 billion to the EU last year so your theories about it being harder as we're not in the single market, are false.
We have an FTA. It's working.
If you want to talk politics, lets talk about interesting things rather than living in the past.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 30, 2023 10:46:00 GMT
When even the most gung-ho pro-EU newspaper admits that rejoin is a non starter then perhaps people need to start listening..
There are several reasons why Rejoiners should steel themselves for a very long haul. First, it would require another referendum, and while the polls and demographics give grounds for hope, once a campaign gets into the specifics their case would be more difficult. Rejoining would mean a commitment to abolish the pound and give up independent immigration controls. There will be no UK opt-outs this time. These are not easy arguments to make.
Secondly, the efforts to improve the existing Brexit settlement, repair relations and ease trade friction may reduce the imperative for rejoining. If Brexit can be made bearable, why go through the pain of unpicking it?
There will be no rapid return. Those dreaming of only a decade in the wilderness are unlikely to be right.
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Post by Dogburger on Aug 31, 2023 8:43:33 GMT
When even the most gung-ho pro-EU newspaper admits that rejoin is a non starter then perhaps people need to start listening.. There are several reasons why Rejoiners should steel themselves for a very long haul. First, it would require another referendum, and while the polls and demographics give grounds for hope, once a campaign gets into the specifics their case would be more difficult. Rejoining would mean a commitment to abolish the pound and give up independent immigration controls. There will be no UK opt-outs this time. These are not easy arguments to make.
Secondly, the efforts to improve the existing Brexit settlement, repair relations and ease trade friction may reduce the imperative for rejoining. If Brexit can be made bearable, why go through the pain of unpicking it?
There will be no rapid return. Those dreaming of only a decade in the wilderness are unlikely to be right.
Can't see it myself . UKplc will be up and running and doing just fine in ten years and the EU will be in decline so it won't even be a question thats being asked . |
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Post by bancroft on Aug 31, 2023 16:27:13 GMT
The EU is in a rocky place, firstly COV-ID hurt us both as private service providers and retail outlets went under so the tax income fell significantly. Next up Biden enforcing sanctions on anyone dealing with Russia has harmed Europe and especially Germany whose companies have largely moved to either the US or China and the German economy is hurting.
Holland, Sweden, Germany and Poland are all showing signs of moving to the Right and Italy and Spain also might be moving in that direction.
If this happens we cannot see now what might happen, it might break or change its model in a way we might rejoin.
Too early to say.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 31, 2023 17:12:52 GMT
Holland, Sweden, Germany and Poland are all showing signs of moving to the Right and Italy and Spain also might be moving in that direction. If this happens we cannot see now what might happen, it might break or change its model in a way we might rejoin. Too early to say. Oooh - that might be fun. Wonder what all the FBPE types will make of joining a far right EU - it would be hilarious if we finally got to the point of rejoin and then they decided it wasn't such a good idea after all.. |
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